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Here is a quick chart to give an idea of the actual size of the bottles.
Bigger is normally better as the refill price is lower, however the weight has to be considered for your space and vehicle. Unless you have a big shop and have the LWS take care of your tanks.
Here are the sizes of high pressure gas cylinders listed on the back of my LWS's catalog:
I just swapped my 80cf argon tank for a 150cf, and am really looking forward to having a lower cost of argon as a result. The 80cf was going empty too fast; sure they say "6 hours of arc time" or whatever, but I think that doesn't include waiting for pre and post flow and if you do lots of tack welds or smaller stitch type welds or short bead lengths, I think the actual amount one will get is a lot less. I was also feeling like I could easily handle a larger bottle. (Maybe this metal fab work has made me stronger? :o ) They are giving me a nice deal on 150cf refills, too: 10% more refill cost for almost double the gas. $40 (before tax and hazmat mark-ups) for the 80 vs. $45 for the 150cf.Code:Name Cubic feet Width Height Weight
21 21 cf 5" 17" 15 lbs
46 46 cf 7" 24" 25 lbs
80 92 cf 7" 33" 47 lbs
125 125 cf 7" 43" 61 lbs
150 155 cf 7.5" 46" 70 lbs
250 251 cf 8.5" 51" 115 lbs
330 336 cf 9" 55" 135 lbs
I checked the pressure and it seems my LWS is filling the 150 the same pressure as the 80. It seems like all bottles I buy from them are always filled to 1800 psi. (kind of a lower than expected amount I think... but it makes having a large physically sized bottle all the more important!)
The cost to upgrade the size of the bottle itself (about $60) I figure will be paid off and then saving money after just two bottle refills. And I will save time not having to run to the LWS so often.
I handled the 125cf and the 150cf cylinders to get a feel for them. The LWS said some 125cf's were rentals and some customer owned swaps, while the 150's were all customer owned. They said the 150cfs were very common customer owned size, and will never be inadvertently be exchanged for a rental cylinder anywhere in the area. I also liked the look of the larger cylinder, it seemed "right" to me for my needs. I did look at the larger cylinders but they seem to get pretty big.
I am sure my tank is well over 135 lbs :D or maybe I am just getting old/weak. :D
But I agree, even the 125 is too small for me. Maybe for MIG, but the TIG just eats those little bottles up.
Does anyone know a good place to buy tanks other than LWS. or what is a good price is for the differn sizes. Thanks.
National Cylinder used to have a site. Not sure if they still do.
Sometimes you'll see them on craigslist.com with a welder. And sometime the price of the bundle, you can buy it all, keep the tank and re-sell the welder. I have a couple owner 150's I paid $100 for with argon in them. Would love to trade them for a 250 or 330 though.
Make sure the ring on the top of the bottle has no name on it or you will be locked into one supplier. Also check the date on it or they will get you on the first fill. Also make sure the bottom has not rust on it.
What size bottle would you recommend for someone who does not weld real often? As of now I probably wouldn't be using it more than a few times per week. If the plans I have go right then I would be welding more often and at first I will probably be using it a good bit to get projects done that I have been adding up while I wait for the welder. I was thinking of getting a 150 or 250 tank.
I got the 150 CF bottle and burned through it in about 2 months. I must say I was doing lots of experimenting though. I think once I settle down to actual use rather than "practice/learning" a 150 will suit nicely for the occasional repair/project.
Jason,
150 is the smallest I would go with to learn, stay with that until you need to go bigger. Smaller will cost more and run out faster.
Just for the Aussie welders…
When considering what company to go with for your gas, you should check the actual cylinder sizes as well as price (for rental and fill).
I discovered that there is a big difference in “E” sized cylinders.
BOC – E (or E2) sized pure argon…
Actual capacity 4.1 cu m
Refill price changes all the time but around $120
Supagas – E sized pure argon…
Actual capacity 4.8 cu m (17% more than the equivalent BOC cylinder)
Refill $104 (with free delivery)
Rental $14 per month
Here’s a photo of the two “E” sized cylinders side by side (BOC on the left)…
Attachment 908
Hello,
You know, they say for people who dont weld often to get the smaller tanks. My advice is to go with the larger tank if you got the room. As long as its closed the gas isnt going anywhere. Its rediculous the price differences. Its about $20 more for the 200 cubic of argon to get filled over the 40 cubic. So you get around 500% more gas for about 50% more in cost. I wouldnt even bother with a smaller tank on tig. Leave it for the portable mig welders. Just my two cents on how I waisted money on smaller tanks.
I based my tank size on what was available for a customer owned tank in my area. I called around and found out the largest customer owned tank any shop will refill is a 150cf. That was at my local airgas (the absolute worst place to do business btw) refill prices are reasonable and the tank is quite manageable by myself. wish I could of gotten a larger tank though. the welder here at work was showing me his gas lens that he made (and now sells) for welding up anything at the aerospace shop I work at. The gas lens is over an inch in diameter but very short with the tungsten protruding about 1.5"! he had the gas flow cranked up well into the 20+ range but it worked amazingly well. I've also seen the guy at weldingtipsandtricks.com use this setup. I couldn't keep a 150cf tank full for a week running as much argon through the tip as they are!
Your other option is to get a couple of 125 or 150 cft tanks. Yeah, the price of the gas is a little more to fill both, but........
You don't pay the rental fees for the tank. Plus, hauling around those big tanks is a PITA and I hate having the government tracking me like they do with the big tanks.
I got a couple of full 125cft argon tanks for $100 each off of Craigslist. They were new last year and were good for the 10 year inspection. The guy who was selling them got them from a fabrication company that went belly up and was selling them for a good price. I'm probably going to pick up a few more as they are a pretty good deal.
Once you learn to roll them and use your foot (or get a dolly, best option) the larger tanks are not that bad and save money. How does the government track you on the larger tanks. Never heard about this. Prax and WSI do nothing but charge me and off I go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
This is second post about government tracking...Have we got a conspiracy theorist in our midst?lol
There's no tracking done on those tanks. I could see acetylene maybe, but definitely not argon, an inert gas. They can even "loose" a certain amount of cylinders yearly to good customers. I back my truck up to the dock tell them which gas I want pay cash or charge it, and drive off. Not much paper work. No serial numbers recorded or secret homing devices attached. I could drive a tank to Washington state, and no one would care or have a bit of concern (as long as it was properly carried).
Incidentally, I compared the cost of filling your own tank versus the tank fee per year, and they charge a premium to fill customer owned tanks and if you use them much at all it comes out in the wash.'
Even the DOT would probably not bother you with no commercial info on your truck unless they saw a missing safety cap on a bottle sticking up. With the exception of acetylene, you can lay them all down in the back of the trucks and no one will know.
But I always drive in, pay and go. Sign or show nothing to the salesman.
There is no tracking here and I have even taken a bottle in my car once with no questions asked. Folded the back seats down and slid the bottle in from the trunk. They had no problems with it as long as I loaded it myself and did not need their help.
Just checked one of my bottles. They are filled to 2200psi. Look at the head stamp on the bottle and see if you have a "+" after the hydrostatic test date. If so, you are good for a +10% overfill.Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeru
I started out with an 80 for my mig, but soon traded for a 150. I got tired of going back and fourth every week. I own my argon bottle for my tig, but I plan to get another bottle asap, and would like to have another 125 or 150 for my tig. The smaller bottles will cost you some big $$$$ if you weld regularly. I own my oxygen and acetylene, they are 80's but I rarely use my torches. I have two sets of 20's for my Victor torch / tote and they are outrageous to fill, but at the same time they are so dadgum handy to carry for making a small cut. I need to sell the set, but the handy factor keeps me from getting rid of the set.
The guy at the LWS told me something that was pretty smart. Gas bottles always go up in value, and they never go down. Owning your bottles is a good investment. I have one rental and when it's up I will buy a bottle instead of leasing.
Sean,
I still have a uniweld O/A MC set for the same reason, can just throw it in the trucks and go.
To save money, take them to an HVAC/AV supplier (like Johnston) to exchange them. It is close to 50% less here in my area. I get them done for $15 each compared to $29 at Prax..