Electrical info needed

Looking to get my detached garage ready for my welder. I am looking to get the Powertig 250ex. I need to have a 240 outlet installed in my garage. I will have to run wire from my house to the garage, the electrical to the garage is on a 20 amp breaker. I have an unused 50 amp breaker and 12 empty spots in my box, what would be the best way to run the 240 to the garage? I want to have plenty of strength in the breakers and wiring to use the full power of the welder, for hours if need be. Only want to have to mess with the electrical once.:confused: I know electricians could wire it up, but my experience with sub contractors in my area has not been positive. I need to be able to tell them what you all say is required. Thx!

Well if you want the close to the best job... (If you already have a 200 amp box in the house) I would get a 100 amp breaker and run #2 Aluminum wire to the garage and put in a 100 amp sub panel. To do it correctly you would need to run 2-2-2-2 because by code you need to separate the neutral and ground after the disconnect. (Breaker box int he house)

If not your can just run a 50 amp line #6 copper to just the 220 outlet. Myself I would not want to run a 50 amp line and run outlets (the rest of the garage) off of it. If you trip the 220 breaker in the house the whole garage goes dark. Especially if you are running more lights a compressor etc... It looks like the Powertig 250 uses a max 45 amp so 50 amp break should do it.

The top scenario would be great if you want to add a big compressor or any other big tools someday in the future.

Recently did the same thing at my place,,,asked a electrician to do the work,,couldn't get him off his lazy ### to even give me a quote,,too busy,,did it my self ran a new subpanel into the garage from the spare 50 amp breaker in the house,,,used all 4 wires to the subpanel 2 hots , a neutrel, and the ground, then 2 hots and a ground for the welder plugs,,,everything in 1 1/2 " conduit buried in the ground from the house to the garage,,,used No 8 cause the run was small,,used the other breaker spaces in the subpanel for extra outlets and lights,,the 50 amps from the main panel is the shutoff for the subpanel..everything works fine..the welder plugs in the subpanel are 40 amps which you need for the 250EX,,,,40 amps did not work at my shop for the 250EX cause it's only 208 volts on 3 phase,,,had to use a 50 there.

Thx brian, the top scenario sounds great, i would like to have a big compressor one day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by geezer

used No 8 cause the run was small,

---

I looked up the specs for #8 a while back. If you run THHN the single conductor wire it is rated for 50 amp, but if you use NM (romex) or UF (the gray underground wire) they require #6. That is running full current. It has something to do with insulation quality and cooling. Shouldn't have a problem with either... Just did some research because the books ran back an forth on the amperage.

I needed a run of about 120 feet. I looked at Lowes for #6 thhn and it was around $400 for a 500 foot spool... (4 runs of 125 feet). I think 2-2-2-2 was (guessing) around $2 or more. So the Aluminum gave you a bigger capacity and was cheaper. For a long run it was the way to go...

BTW OUCH.... The wire prices have gone through the roof... BTW not a licensed electrician... Just done a lot of wiring...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blaze

Thx brian, the top scenario sounds great, i would like to have a big compressor one day.

---

Good way to do it... depending if you already have a 200 amp box in the house, but with that many spaces open I am guessing you do.

How far do you have to run the wire??? Short run you can use conduit and pull the wires... Long run you can use conduit where the wires enter and leave the buildings and use underground wire. (the twisted stuff like the power company uses... You can buy it at Lowes etc... Need to go with 4 conductor. Not the triplex 3 conductor.

I need to go about 15 down the side of the house, 20 feet underground, and around 30 feet to where i would like the outlet. Do have 200 service in house.

The run was about 25 feet with another 10 for connections inside total 35 feet, used all copper,,,,the trick to putting wire in conduit is to assemble the conduit and then take it apart and slip each piece over the wire as you reassemble it,,,,tryin to pull heavy wire over a long run with all the twists and turns is the hard way of doing it...my 50 amp set up is the second source for the garage the original was only 110 volts,,,left that in place for the lights and garage door opener..dont' expect to run anything other than welders on it so 50 amps is plenty,, the compressor I have is 110v and keeps up to the plasma cutter easily..my big compressor and the 250 EX are at my shop,,not shortage of power there,, have a 600 amp panel..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blaze

I need to go about 15 down the side of the house, 20 feet underground, and around 30 feet to where i would like the outlet. Do have 200 service in house.

---

In that case a no 6 wire should be plenty and you could bump the subpanel up to 60 or 70 amps off the main panel...a 2 inch conduit would make things easier for the install,,,should be enough to run a welder and compressor,

if running from main box to a new box in garage need 2/0 3 wire uncased in under ground conduit . here were i got my wire when doing my 3 power breaker boxs in my machine shop and all my in wire for machine tool is 8 http://www.ebay.com/itm/190629315891...84.m1423.l2649

Thx all for the info, i appreciate the quick responses. Time to shop around for prices.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blaze

I need to go about 15 down the side of the house, 20 feet underground, and around 30 feet to where i would like the outlet. Do have 200 service in house.

---

Well if you go with 100 amp breaker in the house 2-2-2-2 wire you will need a sub panel... (That is a 100 amp breaker box in the garage.) Then from it you can add breakers for a welder and another for compressor, more outlets, etc...

If you just want to run just a welder outlet just use the 50 amp 220 breaker and wire it directly to the outlet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by geezer

my 50 amp set up is the second source for the garage the original was only 110 volts,,,left that in place for the lights and garage door opener..dont' expect to run anything other than welders on it so 50 amps is plenty,, the compressor I have is 110v and keeps up to the plasma cutter easily..my big compressor and the 250 EX are at my shop,,not shortage of power there,, have a 600 amp panel..

---

600 amp Wow... Must be a little more that a little house!!! I put in a 400 amp panel and that is Large... Took 350 MCM cable... try pulling that through conduit!!

Thats sounds good. Don't want to limit myself and have to add more when i get or run more toys!:) what size wire goes from the breaker in the sub panel to the outlet?

You know, you guys are really great. New person on the forum has a question and in little over an hour, 4 people responded and gave him some great advice. Cheers! :cool:

have to check how many amps my main box is , it will holds 30 breakers if was 120 v breakers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blaze

Thats sounds good. Don't want to limit myself and have to add more when i get or run more toys!:) what size wire goes from the breaker in the sub panel to the outlet?

---

Technically... If you are using Romex (NM) wire it should be #6 copper...

But if you run it in conduit you can use #8 copper THHN it is usually black (single conductor) would have to pull the wires through one at a time. Make sure you use the plastic bushings where the conduit enters the breaker box or outlet box.

For a welder you are probably using a 3 conductor, 50 amp plug. 2 hot wires (from the breaker) and a ground.

Thank you, got a list together, got to price this out

Brian Ski, you out there? It just dawned on me, I need a 220V plug for the water cooler. What would be your recomendation for the size of circuit breaker to put in my sub panel for the water cooler? I did not find any info on the amps it might draw. Would number 6 copper be required for the water cooler plug also? Also, I found Aluminum 2-2-2-4 underground wire, will this work as the 2-2-2-2 your recomended for the line going from my house to the garage? One last thing, the ground wires from the sub panel to the 220V plugs, do they need to be #6 copper? Thank you for your time!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blaze

Brian Ski, you out there? It just dawned on me, I need a 220V plug for the water cooler. What would be your recomendation for the size of circuit breaker to put in my sub panel for the water cooler? I did not find any info on the amps it might draw. Would number 6 copper be required for the water cooler plug also? Also, I found Aluminum 2-2-2-4 underground wire, will this work as the 2-2-2-2 your recomended for the line going from my house to the garage? One last thing, the ground wires from the sub panel to the 220V plugs, do they need to be #6 copper? Thank you for your time!

---

Plug the cooler into the back of the 250Ex ( i think this is the model you mentioned in a earlier post) the cooler draws 1.3 amps
Cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blaze

Brian Ski, you out there? It just dawned on me, I need a 220V plug for the water cooler. What would be your recomendation for the size of circuit breaker to put in my sub panel for the water cooler? I did not find any info on the amps it might draw. Would number 6 copper be required for the water cooler plug also? Also, I found Aluminum 2-2-2-4 underground wire, will this work as the 2-2-2-2 your recomended for the line going from my house to the garage? One last thing, the ground wires from the sub panel to the 220V plugs, do they need to be #6 copper? Thank you for your time!

---

Titan beat me to it... The cooler should plug into the back of the welder. Depending on model.

Yes the 2-2-2-4 is the wire you want. The standard is one size smaller for the neutral wire.

Yes you should run a number 6 copper for the ground wire. Same size as the other wires.

BTW the cooler will run a lot smaller wire than the welder. If you are plugging it into the back of the welder the cord should be long enough.

Not sure if you are doing this yourself or not... If you are not sure, a qualified electrician should be called upon... BTW you need to use a dielectric grease on the ends of the aluminum wires. It keep the wires from oxidizing. An electrician will have the stuff or you can get a little tube at the store for a buck or 2.

I wired my cooler so when i turn my 250ex on it turns on the cooler . as for pulling wire i use dawn soap to lube wire can pull all the wire at once .

Thanks guys, I did not know there was an outlet on the back of the 250EX. Sweet! I plan on getting a couple quotes from electricians ( i figure they can get the materials cheaper). But if it is way to expensive, I'll run the wiring myself and have one of my buddies that knows how to hook everything up apply the power. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blaze

But if it is way to expensive, I'll run the wiring myself and have one of my buddies that knows how to hook everything up apply the power. :D

---

That is the way to do it... Not to complicated, but you want it done right... BTW If you run the cable make sure it is plenty long enough. It is sure a lot of grief to end up several inches short of making it to the other side of the box.

I'm an licensed electrician (now a project manager, not a field working electrician) and pretty much so everything Brian said is correct. If you go through the trouble of putting in larger power make sure you spring for a nice sub panel in the work area. It's so much easier to wire outlets, air compressors, blast cabinets, etc. with a sub panel. Most residential panels will limit you to a 100 amp or maybe 125 amp branch circuit breaker depending on the brand. . If you can install a 100 amp breaker in your house panel to feed a 100 amp panel in your garage you'll like that as your equipment grows. Most items are never running at the same time so it will run a lot of items in your garage without problem for a hobby fabricator. Also if it's in your budget install a couple of different 50 amp welder outlets of the same circuit to maximize versatility with little added cost. Again you will probably never have two welders running at the same time. Remember to make your 120 volt outlets GFCI for safety---it's worth the extra money for the safety factor.

Been 2 years but finally getting my 250Ex with Cooler, Mig 250 with aluminium spool gun and Plasma 60 coming. :D Need to check with you all about the size of breakers to install in my panel. The Plasma 60 states 50a max in rush. The 250Ex states 45. The Mig 250 states 40. So I'm thinking I need two 50 amp breakers and one 40 amp breaker to install 240 outlets. Is this correct? These will be in a 200 amp panel dedicated to my shop.

Personally I would go with all 50 amp breakers. That way you can move any one of them to where ever you want to. If you are a one man shop you could just put them all on one breaker with multiple outlets because only one would be used at a time. If you think you will have another person working in your shop then go with 3 full circuits. I work alone and my whole shop is run off a 60 amp circuit to my garage with a sub pannel in the garage to branch off to the machines. I have never poped my 60 amp breaker. I work alone so only one major tool is run at any one time. I have been in my shop for 20 years with no problem other than the lights dimming in the house for a second when the 5hp compressor kicks in.

TheGary,
Thanks for responding. To double check. If I used a 50 amp breaker for my Mig 250 that states max in rush 40 amps, would a 40-50 amp charge fry my Mig 250?

No, you need to have a bigger breaker than the highest amps post on the welder. The extra amps hurt nothing and are good to have actually.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blaze

TheGary,
Thanks for responding. To double check. If I used a 50 amp breaker for my Mig 250 that states max in rush 40 amps, would a 40-50 amp charge fry my Mig 250?

---

There would be no damage to your mig. It will only draw the amount of current the welder demands. The breaker is there to protect the wire , you always want a larger breaker than the expected current draw. If you have 200 amps available you must have a totally separate electrical service to your shop. If you are a one man shop you will never get close to that much electrical draw.

Thank you for your time! I appreciate it!