Noob's first beads with 140st- problem with 110

I got my 6-50 plug wired to my new 140st today, and also made a whip to use 110. Chopped up a piece of 1/8" angle I had and ran a few beads before I had to quit due to storm clouds. I have to weld outside, so the weather is always a consideration. I have an old stainless food service table as my bench.

I had a handful of Lincoln 6013 rods and some Horrible Freight 6011. Besides the slag coming off the 6013 more easily, they burned pretty similarly.

I think there was a little improvement from my first beads to my last, and I even managed a couple lap joints. Penetration looked good from the edges (to my noob eyes).

I'm really impressed so far with the little 140. My only problem was I could not get the 110 to light up at all. On 220 both rods lit up like a kitchen match, all the way down to 60 amps. At 110 amps I was cutting pieces off a 3/16" bar with the 6011.

I tried the 110 circuit with the work clamp grounded to the table and directly to the angle. Nuthin'.

I made a whip with 10/3 left over from an extension cord. I'm sure the polarity is correct. Using the 110 whip in a 20 amp outlet, the welder amp display lights up, but I can't get an arc to strike. What can I check? Help!

Below are some pics:

http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/...10-220whip.jpg
http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/...065-80amps.jpg
http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/...065-80amps.jpg
http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/...065-80amps.jpg

When you run it in 120 volt, what is your amp range on the display?

I tried it up to about 95 amps on the display.

I found the 140/150/200 manual on the site here and for the plug wiring it has two configurations: L1 and L2. What's what?
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/do...ST-160-200.pdf

Are you running the torch in positive polarity? What size electrodes?

Yup, electrode positive. 3/32" rods.
I have the 6-50 welder plug wired so that the wide blade is black and narrow is white. I checked the continuity on the whip and the polarity is correct.
Could that diagram be wrong? Maybe at the 110 outlet the hot and neutral are opposite? I used one of those yellow testers in each of my 20 amp outlets in the vicinity and that says they are both wired correctly.

No, white is always neutral in a 120 v circuit...you should read 0 between it and ground. Do you get sparks or anything? Have you measured power across the output terminals on 110V? what voltage?

Just measured it. Had to tape wire leads to my crappy voltmeter cuz the leads are too short to reach the contacts in the 220 receptacle.
120v jumping both sides, 0 one side and ground, and 120 the other side and ground.

If you were able to turn it up to 95, you have probably not wired it up correctly for 120V.
In a normal NEMA 5-15 120V outlet the wide blade is neutral (white). For 220V it doesn't matter how you wire the plug as both sides are hot, but for 120V it is important that the white is neutral. You installed the plug on your welder and you made the adapter whip, so you should know how you wired it up and be able to test your work. just make sure that you have the white wire from the welder going to the neutral. I suspect that you don't.

You know, I opened up a few of my receptacles and I also Googled 6-50 wiring diagrams and in all instances the wide blade on the plug is neutral. Of course on the 220 both sides are hot so it's not an issue, but if I'm trying to match up with a 110 outlet then it does matter.

The manual is making the wide blade hot in the 120v setup. Am I reading that L1 and L2 drawing wrong?

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Originally Posted by MotoJ

Just measured it. Had to tape wire leads to my crappy voltmeter cuz the leads are too short to reach the contacts in the 220 receptacle.
120v jumping both sides, 0 one side and ground, and 120 the other side and ground.

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Yes, but which is which? It is important that the white be on the side that it 0 to ground.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MotoJ

You know, I opened up a few of my receptacles and I also Googled 6-50 wiring diagrams and in all instances the wide blade on the plug is neutral. Of course on the 220 both sides are hot so it's not an issue, but if I'm trying to match up with a 110 outlet then it does matter.

The manual is making the wide blade hot in the 120v setup. Am I reading that L1 and L2 drawing wrong?

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The problem is that you are doing something outside of normal specs. 6-50 is not a 120V plug so there is no standard for wiring it up to 120, it is a 240V only. It is up to you to make sure that you make the proper adapter to use 120V

My whip is correct- 0 to ground on the wide blade side. I didn't open it to see what color, but that doesn't matter for now. The welder plug I wired as the manual said, with black on wide side, which evidently is incorrect. I'll switch that and try it again....

My last post I made while you were writing.. Mark apparently is replying here to a question from another thread!

Thanks for the help so far!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MotoJ

You know, I opened up a few of my receptacles and I also Googled 6-50 wiring diagrams and in all instances the wide blade on the plug is neutral. Of course on the 220 both sides are hot so it's not an issue, but if I'm trying to match up with a 110 outlet then it does matter.

The manual is making the wide blade hot in the 120v setup. Am I reading that L1 and L2 drawing wrong?

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The manual is showing the standard wiring for a 6-50 on 220V there is no standard for 120V on a 6-50 so they just show that the neutral should be on the narrow blade, since that is the white wire for 220V.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MotoJ

My whip is correct- 0 to ground on the wide blade side. I didn't open it to see what color, but that doesn't matter for now. The welder plug I wired as the manual said, with black on wide side, which evidently is incorrect. I'll switch that and try it again....

My last post I made while you were writing.. Mark apparently is replying here to a question from another thread!

Thanks for the help so far!

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Your whip is incorrect. It should be 0 to ground on the narrow blade for the 6-50 side. If you followed the manual for the 6-50 plug installation.

Well how do I tell which color is the neutral leg coming from the welder? They say it's white, but they have it going to the hot side of the plug.

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Originally Posted by MotoJ

Well how do I tell which color is the neutral leg coming from the welder? They say it's white, but they have it going to the hot side of the plug.

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It's always white. And for 220V it does go to a hot side. You don't seem to understand that there is no neutral leg in a 6-50 plug. You are making it that way with your adapter. The standard colors to blades are reversed between 120V and 240V plugs. For a 5-15 white is to the wide blade, for a 6-50 white is to the narrow blade. For 240V it really doesn't matter if you swap them, for 120V it does matter.

It's my 110 that doesn't work.
It's getting too late for me. I think I know what I need to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MotoJ

It's my 110 that doesn't work.
It's getting too late for me. I think I know what I need to do.

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I know that it is your 120V that doesn't work. It is because you have your whip wired backwards. Just swap the white and black on one end and it will work. If you don't understand why, maybe you should call an electrician to do this kind of work for you.
I hope you haven't damaged your welder by hooking it up backwards.

The manual does list the correct wiring. The top line is for 240V and the bottom line is for 120V

Attachment 8140

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MotoJ

Yup, electrode positive. 3/32" rods.
I have the 6-50 welder plug wired so that the wide blade is black and narrow is white. I checked the continuity on the whip and the polarity is correct.
Could that diagram be wrong? Maybe at the 110 outlet the hot and neutral are opposite? I used one of those yellow testers in each of my 20 amp outlets in the vicinity and that says they are both wired correctly.

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I had it right the first time. I followed the white in the whip. Should I have crossed the legs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MotoJ

I had it right the first time. I followed the white in the whip. Should I have crossed the legs?

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Depends on what you mean by cross, from wide to narrow, yes from left to right no. You see for 240V they switch which side the wide blade is on and what color wire goes to it. That is to prevent just what you are doing, plugging a 120V device into a 240V outlet. A 120V outlet has the neutral on the wide blade with a white wire. A 240V outlet has the white wire on the narrow blade, but it is hot. Your whip has to violate electrical codes, because you are doing something that wasn't planned for and that is a device that can run on more than one voltage. If you want to be totally code legal you would be required to change the plug to switch voltages. No one wants to do that so an adapter is the easiest way, but you should use your meter and verify that the neutral ends up on the white wire from the welder, the hot ends up on the black, and the ground ends up on the green. You will have to violate the color code on one end or the other to achieve that.

Thanks Rambozo,

This is what I've got: white wire from welder to narrow blade on 5-60, black to wide, green ground. At the whip, when plugged into 110 outlet, 5-60 receptacle on the end has narrow hole to ground at 0 volts, wide to ground is 120, 120 across narrow and wide. When I plug the welder into the whip, no change from before.

I took the 5-60 off and installed a 5-15- white to silver, black to gold, green ground. Corresponding outlet has 0 volts on wide blade, 120 narrow. That's correct, yeah?

Still no change. I never had it plugged in for more than seconds. I don't think it would fry instantaneously. With the 220 plug back on, it strikes easy and welds great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MotoJ

I took the 5-60 off and installed a 5-15- white to silver, black to gold, green ground. Corresponding outlet has 0 volts on wide blade, 120 narrow. That's correct, yeah?

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Yup, that's right.

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...I don't think it would fry instantaneously...

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I hope those aren't famous last words. There are plenty of electronic devices that do fry instantly. I'm sure someone from Everlast support will know as I'm sure they have seen this before.
Because of the warning in the manual and a few others mentioned on this forum, I built my plug with a built in tester to make sure it never happend to me, in case I ran into an outlet wired wrong.

Also I'm guessing you meant 6-50 not 5-60.

I hope that's not the case they can get zapped that easy. In that case, if you plugged your cord in and the tester showed the outlet was bad, wouldn't it already be too late?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MotoJ

I hope that's not the case they can get zapped that easy. In that case, if you plugged your cord in and the tester showed the outlet was bad, wouldn't it already be too late?

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Not if I don't flip the power switch. ;)

Since it still works on 240V it can't be that bad, maybe something simple in the auto voltage switching.

Man I hope so. I could use some good luck lately. Thanks for seeing me through this snafu!