CK20 for a 200DX?

Since breaking my hand, then re-fracturing it yesterday, I can see this is going to take some time... I am having a hell of a time wrangling the torch and cable that came with the machine. I thought I read somewhere that the dinse that came on the Everlast torch could be re-used? Not a whole lot of spare cash right now, so any savings I can will help. Since the CK20 is a water cooled 250 amp torch, I can't really see an immediate need to go back to the stock torch, I could buy another connector down the road.

Anyone know if that's do-able? I'm looking at the CK20, regular head, no valve, 25' with flex cable from WeldFabulous, it's under 90. I may be able to squeeze that and enough for a consumables set out of my budget.

Have you looked at our torch options for a smaller torch? We have a 20 series with a flex head and small barrel as well as a 9 if you want small and flexible.

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Originally Posted by Trip59

Since breaking my hand, then re-fracturing it yesterday, I can see this is going to take some time... I am having a hell of a time wrangling the torch and cable that came with the machine. I thought I read somewhere that the dinse that came on the Everlast torch could be re-used? Not a whole lot of spare cash right now, so any savings I can will help. Since the CK20 is a water cooled 250 amp torch, I can't really see an immediate need to go back to the stock torch, I could buy another connector down the road.

Anyone know if that's do-able? I'm looking at the CK20, regular head, no valve, 25' with flex cable from WeldFabulous, it's under 90. I may be able to squeeze that and enough for a consumables set out of my budget.

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It's not compatable with the everlast dinse... there wouldn't be room for an adapter inside it.

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Originally Posted by performance

Have you looked at our torch options for a smaller torch? We have a 20 series with a flex head and small barrel as well as a 9 if you want small and flexible.

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I did, but the price is near double and it didn't have the superflex hose (which I probably could do without, but the price is still double)

http://www.weldfabulous.com/p-77564-...d-torches.aspx These are nice if you can go another $43 add LG to the end of the part number for an everlast gas QC (same price)

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Originally Posted by zoama585

It's not compatable with the everlast dinse... there wouldn't be room for an adapter inside it.

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Ok, thanks. Guess I may have to wait...

Trip,
Everlast customers are treated special on torches...but you also forget that these come ready to go, plumbed up with the dinse connector. That is another 40.00 you have to spend. Also ours come with the remote switch so you can still use the 2T 4T function. That's quite a value if you compare to our competitors...AND it is flex neck, which with your broken hand condition is a life saver. I did not see where the CK20 regular torch is flex head. Also, I think we are discussing some "flexible" alternatives to the standard line as well, which may be available soon. The other thing I'd say about it, is that the torches we sell as options are MUCH more flexible than the regular economy type torches we send with the units. Also I guess you are aware that the CK 20 is water cooled? (which ours are too.)

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Originally Posted by performance

Trip,
Everlast customers are treated special on torches...but you also forget that these come ready to go, plumbed up with the dinse connector. That is another 40.00 you have to spend. Also ours come with the remote switch so you can still use the 2T 4T function. That's quite a value if you compare to our competitors...AND it is flex neck, which with your broken hand condition is a life saver. I did not see where the CK20 regular torch is flex head. Also, I think we are discussing some "flexible" alternatives to the standard line as well, which may be available soon. The other thing I'd say about it, is that the torches we sell as options are MUCH more flexible than the regular economy type torches we send with the units. Also I guess you are aware that the CK 20 is water cooled? (which ours are too.)

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There's the flex head CK20, I might have grabbed the wrong link, it was like $4 more or something... I'll give a ring in sometime this week and see what they can do. I'd much rather buy it ready to go from you guys, I'm thrilled with the 200DX and plan to pick up both a MIG and Plasma within the next 6 months (as soon as I can get my finances out of the toilet) and I rave about you guys everytime a 'I'm looking at ________ welder' comes up. The price is the main point, some other comments from random threads as well, but mainly the price.

Trip - sorry to hear about the hand injury (that does not sound fun at all...)

FYI, I've also checked out the Everlast WP-20F in person, and it's pretty decent quality-wise - good quality materials, brazed construction, screw-on hose connections (rather than relying on safety-wire style clamps). And everything is ready to plug into an Everlast machine. As you've correctly noted, its only downside really are that the hoses are vinyl.

Here's yet another option to throw in the mix, with "superflex style" hoses (silicone rubber with textile overbraid)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WP20F-12R-TI...item4abb44bece
Like the other aftermarket torch options, it probably need adapters (or modification) to make hook up properly, though. A torch switch can be real handy for welding out of position (I use my torch switch for any welding that isn't on the bench top, pretty much.)

What are you going to do for your cooler?

No final plans for cooler yet, most likely run through the sink initially. I have a handful of pumps, just need to compare pressure and flow ratings. Water isn't too hard, shouldn't be an issue. Will build a proper cooler in time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by performance

Trip,
Everlast customers are treated special on torches...but you also forget that these come ready to go, plumbed up with the dinse connector. That is another 40.00 you have to spend. Also ours come with the remote switch so you can still use the 2T 4T function. That's quite a value if you compare to our competitors...AND it is flex neck, which with your broken hand condition is a life saver. I did not see where the CK20 regular torch is flex head. Also, I think we are discussing some "flexible" alternatives to the standard line as well, which may be available soon. The other thing I'd say about it, is that the torches we sell as options are MUCH more flexible than the regular economy type torches we send with the units. Also I guess you are aware that the CK 20 is water cooled? (which ours are too.)

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Ok, so I called in, price works for me on a 25' torch. He mentioned it was the same style handle as the one I have now, but it was smaller... didn't think to ask, but does anyone have a pic, maybe a pic together, comparing the European style WP20 and WP26?

Without a water solenoid valve, remember you will have to start and stop the water and it will run all the time, not just during arc on time.

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Originally Posted by Rambozo

Without a water solenoid valve, remember you will have to start and stop the water and it will run all the time, not just during arc on time.

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Wouldn't that be a good thing? Constant cooling? Especially if I include some form of heat exchanger?

Oh it's absolutely great if you have a cooler, but I was thinking more about your sink type constant loss method. Most welders that use constant loss have a water valve to limit the amount of water they use. I used to work at a place where they had some welders running constant loss and because of the way the building was laid out it was easy to get water to the machine, but there was no drain around. So they had the drain hose stuck through a small hole in the wall and it drained into the parking lot. You could always tell when someone was welding by the puddle outside. What surprised me most was how little water it actually used.

Ah, yet another reason for kids :)

Great point! Not a huge deal though, solenoid is nothing more than an electrically operated valve, I'm sure I have a spare valve I could throw in at the end of the hose before the torch connection. Yes, I am a hoarder of sorts. I take great pleasure in throwing "I told you so" at someone when I need something they made me throw away. My wife finally gave up asking me to get rid of stuff and suggested I just get more shelves and better methods to organize it all.

A cooler will probably be on my short list, may even have one put together before the new torch gets here.

If it has a argon solenoid circuit it should be an easy adaptation to make it also open a water valve solenoid.

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Originally Posted by blacksmith

If it has a argon solenoid circuit it should be an easy adaptation to make it also open a water valve solenoid.

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True, but you have to be careful of how the argon solenoid is switched. If it's switched by a relay you can probably see the contact rating on it and make sure that you don't exceed that with two solenoids. But if it's solid state switching, it might not have that much extra current available, in which case you might need to add a relay to switch one or both solenoids. The last thing you want to do is fry the solid state device that switches the solenoid. Some solenoid valves can draw a fair amount of current.

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Originally Posted by Rambozo

True, but you have to be careful of how the argon solenoid is switched. If it's switched by a relay you can probably see the contact rating on it and make sure that you don't exceed that with two solenoids. But if it's solid state switching, it might not have that much extra current available, in which case you might need to add a relay to switch one or both solenoids. The last thing you want to do is fry the solid state device that switches the solenoid. Some solenoid valves can draw a fair amount of current.

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I could, but why? Seems to me I'd want it running before and longer than the gas, to draw remaining heat from the head and circulate the water for best heat transfer.

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Originally Posted by Trip59

I could, but why? Seems to me I'd want it running before and longer than the gas, to draw remaining heat from the head and circulate the water for best heat transfer.

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Oh yeah, it really helps to keep the torch cool to have it run all the time. But you'd better be damn sure you remember to turn it on, before you start welding, or your power cable will go poof! With an automatic setup you can't forget. Or if you have a cooler, it's no problem to just wire it up to come on with the welder. I think the 200DX has an outlet in the back just for that. But if you run off the sink, maybe hang a sign on the power switch to remind you to turn on the water.
That's one other advantage of CK torch setups, they have a thing called a torch saver that has a fuse block that will blow if there is no water flowing. I think I saw that the 250EXT had a water flow sensor that would cut the current if your water stopped as well.

Relying on yourself (or other human) to turn on/off water valve is risky...

Here's what happened to an expensive CK superflex cable when someone in the off-site shop I was welding at turned off the water in a laundry tub faucet cooling the TIG setup I was using. That was not a good day...
Attachment 8455

You might give serious consideration to simply going with a CK Trimline 210 superflex with flex head, being able to weld anything you come across with reasonable dexterity (it will be a huge improvement in maneuverability over your current WP-26 and the handle is going to be way smaller too) and not messing around with all the complexity that is water-cooling.

I have a setup with similar output capacity as yours (Everlast Super200P; AC/DC TIG rated 200 amps @ 60% duty cycle) and the trimline 210 can take whatever it can dish (keeping the AC balance in check).

Where does the 210 fit in size-wise and consumables-wise? What series consumables does it use and would it be comparable in size to a WP9/20?

Zoama posted a picture of the TL210 superflex next to a CK 9 superflex, (which comparably makes the TL210 superflex cable look like a monster) but it doesn't show how much better it is than that WP26 that you've got. You should post a picture of your WP26, because there are different variations of that on the market (even for Everlast machines, I think) and it would help us know which you've got so we're not making the wrong assumptions.

I've tried one (a WP26) that was literally like a club though (huge, thick, long handle and thick, very poorly flexible cable, which was basically the same hose used for rubber compressed air hose! Is this what you have?) - It was just horrible.

Anyhow, the TL210 superflex cable has the same OD and the same flexibility as a vinyl-hosed WP9 or WP17, and a handle that is also very close in diameter (I think ever so slightly larger). This would be a huge step up from a WP26.

The TL210 uses the same components are the WP17 or WP26. There are stubby collet bodies that allow you to fit WP9 or WP17 cups onto it, of which I particularly like the stubby gas lens version. If you want just one aircooled torch that does it all for the machine you have and is the best available, TL210. If you want to trade off some high power capacity to get some further maneuverability, CK9. Are you going to be welding primarily aluminum, or steel? And how thick of materials will you typically be welding? If aluminum, or thick, TL210. (If both thick *and* aluminum at the same time, TL210 with a Helium mix will do it. ;) )

Actually, I have both the everlast WP20 and the TL210 kicking around here so if you want, I can take some side by side comparison pics of those in a few days. Still won't allow comparison to whatever WP26 it is that you have.

Edit: you could also do some more research on older threads in this forum for the same topic, there have been lots of others who have made similar upgrades. Here is some additional information, for example:
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...-Torch-options

I just put in an order for the TL210 flex head with a 25' Superflex cable and the matching gas-saver kit. The torch takes the 3 series components by default but you can put the stuby kit like suggested above to use the 2 series components.

My original reasoning was to buy a lower high end torch like the CK17 for the flexibility and then swap to the OEM torch for the top end. Then I said to hell with that idea. I don't weld in such huge quantities to find much advantage is this so I figured a flex head with 200 amp capability and a slimer design would cover everything unless I have a super specific need.

Enough of my rambling. My original purpose in replying was to state that once the torch comes in I can take some photos of the CK TL210 next to the OEM 200DX WP26 torch if wanted.

Been searching, I'd love it if someone had a side by side shot of all the torches in their lineup, you'd think manufacturer's would. Maybe I'll e-mail Jody and ask him to line up a collection of his torches side by side for comparison, sounds like something he could easily get a 7-10 minute video on that tons of folks would appreciate...

The one I have is the big blue WP26 that others have posted pics of.

One of the major projects I have coming up is a bunch of cast aluminum repairs. I have a 74 sporty case half on the way for practice so I can dial in the machine and operator before tackling the probably 120" of welding on my 59 cases, also have some intake manifold repairs and my neighbor the mechanic is always needing repairs on cast aluminum parts, so I need to be able to squeeze all the juice I can from the 200DX. Other than that, the vast majority of welding I've done and will do is much thinner steel and stainless, likely well under 130-150 amps 80-90% of the time

I was looking for a small torch to handle whatever I threw at it, from getting inside cases and funky places under hoods, to miles of sheet metal and light fabrication. The probably 8-10 hours I've been searching and reading since posting, and all that before, is now leading me to think about a single line smaller gas cooled torch with superflex like a CK9 or CK130, and then something else like http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...tos-and-Part-s for the bigger stuff.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like $$ is going to line up just yet, so I'm going to keep digging and researching and take a look at a January purchase. Even the great deal from Alex probably isn't going to fit my immediate budget.

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Originally Posted by bswinn

I just put in an order for the TL210 flex head with a 25' Superflex cable and the matching gas-saver kit. The torch takes the 3 series components by default but you can put the stuby kit like suggested above to use the 2 series components.

My original reasoning was to buy a lower high end torch like the CK17 for the flexibility and then swap to the OEM torch for the top end. Then I said to hell with that idea. I don't weld in such huge quantities to find much advantage is this so I figured a flex head with 200 amp capability and a slimer design would cover everything unless I have a super specific need.

Enough of my rambling. My original purpose in replying was to state that once the torch comes in I can take some photos of the CK TL210 next to the OEM 200DX WP26 torch if wanted.

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That would be awesome, also, what all you had to pick up to make it work would help out greatly. I responded with what appears to be a similar thought line to your original thoughts as you were posting this... looks like I need to step back and think about it again. This all is starting to make my head hurt worse than my hand.

Ok, so I've been thinking all morning, looking at funds etc. Went out in the shop for a smoke and played with the WP26 I have. Turns out, it's the handle itself that isn't working for me. Torch is ok other than the big blue (sorry guys) Fisher-Price looking handle. Unscrewed the cover, looks like a standard, straight Weldcraft will fit it... anyone tried?

I'll toss out $10 for that, and I decided I'm going to pick up a pair of gas-savers, 1/16 and 3/32 for the torch I have and call it good till end of January. Was looking at those anyhow, so this saves me a buck fifty now and may make things work for me till then. If that handle won't fit, I can't imagine I can't fab something. Also going to make a leather cover for the leads, read in a couple posts that gave it a bit more flexibility. I have enough scrap in the right weight to make a leather cover for the last 5' or so to give me that little bit more flexibility in the place I need it.

I'm thinking a small, single lead gas cooled and a small water cooled in the spring, super light for the light stuff and then something small for the rest. Probably save up for a FlexLoc and just go whole hog.

Thanks all for all of the info and input. The final determination was after watching http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...-from-Everlast when I saw the Euro style WP20 and realized it wasn't any significant savings in size in the place I was concerned about. Alex said that's all they had in stock right now. Isn't the head as much as the body I have issues with at the moment.

Trip, yes, most of the torch handles will interchange like that. You have to experiment though. I can't say for 100%, but have done it myself with no issue.

Excellent! Thanks Mark. I'll keep an ear out for those other cables mentioned any guess on an ETA?

Ironically, 2 minutes after I posted I just got an RFQ for another project, so perhaps the Everlast WP20 is back on the table, especially if I can swap out the Euro handle for a straight one :)

One other question, since I'm already asking so much, lol. I have a 1.6 and a 2.4 collet, I got in a fight with the middle sized one, thinking it was 3/32, no, it's marked 2.0? Was my machine supposed to come with a 1/16, 3/32 and 1/8 or a 1.6, 2.0, 2.4? And what the heck tungsten does a 2.0 even fit?

Trip, we SHOULD have the regular handles, unless someone messed up the order. (factory for example). See if we have the regular handles in the 15 ft. They are more flexible than the blue handled ones.

EDIT: We should have regular handle COMPLETE torches.(not the handles themselves...though you can buy them separately elsewhere.)

Will do. Need to wait till the RFQ goes out and gets approved. I was really wanting to go 25, but in thinking it further, I really don't TIG outside the shop much, a 15 would probably do ok, I'll have to move the welder into the trailers anyhow when I get to that (hopefully those) jobs... even a 25 won't reach the front of a 53' refrigerated trailer. Might save a couple more $$ too that way on the initial outlay.

Might be an order coming in, don't know, but Alex said in the 25's at least, the Euro style was all he had on hand.

You win Mark :)

15' WP20 is on it's way. No regular handles in either length, so I tacked one on my other order along with the gas saver setup and some additional filler metal to round out my stash. My budget is officially shot, but hopefully the next few jobs coming through will offset the cost.

Trip - I really doubt that the slim-style WP9/17 handle would fit over the WP26 torch body connector anyway. (That's the main problem solved by the TL210 design: a reasonably small diameter handle fitting over the rather bulky WP26 torch body connector.)

Also, I suggested earlier that I could take some comparison pics of the Everlast WP20 with the CK Trimline 210 Superflex. Despite your mentioning that you already ordered the WP20, I'm going to follow through with it:
Attachment 8476 Attachment 8477

I tried holding them both pretty much vertically and let them "droop" how they wanted. The WP20 actually had kind of a set curve to it (and for these pics, I actually had it oriented so that its natural curve would, in combination with gravity, produce the tightest possible bend.) The superflex cable as you can see, is quite limber.

PS - there is a "custom" braided cable cover on my TL210 superflex (and I've posted about this before), as well as the stubby gas lens collet body I was mentioning earlier. One thing a bit funny about the stubby setup worth mentioning is that the back cap isn't quite long enough to accommodate a 7" long tungsten.

I hope this info is helpful to someone.

Jakeru, the diameter of the the 17 varies from mfgr. The handle of the nine that I use is way too small for the 17. But one thing I'd do to that 17 to improve it...remove that vinyl plastic cover. It will help flexibilty. Wearability of the hose is not bad.

Appreciate it!

I was going to order a WP26 straight handle for the WP26, just as I ordered the WP20 straight (knurled) for the WP20, as all they had was the Fisher-Price style in both 15 and 25'.

The pics you posted are very helpful, and in reality, it looks like BOTH have a smaller radii than the WP26 I have now. I also went ahead and ordered a 1/16 and 3/32 gas-saver setup for it. Figure I might as well, I needed some 316L and 1/16 309L filler for some upcoming work, that covers the shipping and the gas saved may offset the cost there.

I'm still going to make a new cover for the last 5' of the torch, may make one for each torch now, that should make it a bit more flexible.

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Originally Posted by performance

Jakeru, the diameter of the the 17 varies from mfgr. The handle of the [my TIG torch] that I use is way too small for the 17. ...

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I don't know which TIG torch handle you're specifically referring to as not being able to fit a WP17, but if it's from a WP9, it wouldn't seem to be an industry standard design, then.

Weldcraft lists the exact same replacement part numbers for handles ("H100" for smooth, "H100R" for optional ribbed) for their WP9 as they do for WP17. For that matter, they also list the exact same replacement part number for one-piece torch cables too, comparing the WP9 to WP17.
http://www.weldcraft.com/pdfs/WP9ENG.pdf
http://www.weldcraft.com/pdfs/WP17ENG.pdf

CK also lists interchangeable one-piece cables for their comparable versions.

And finally, my old 2007, Mosfet machine era Everlast WP17 (which I still have the torch head I think somewhere, but the cable has long since expired ;) ) appeared to also use an industry standard ("smooth H100" style) handle as well as an industry standard "inert arc" fitting & threads underneath the handle.

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Originally Posted by performance

... one thing I'd do to that 17 to improve it ...

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If you're talking to me, Mark, even though that's not a WP17 I posted a picture of next to the Trimline 210 (it's a WP20), I think you're right that the vinyl cover of the Everlast setup is probably contributing some stiffness.

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Originally Posted by Trip59

Appreciate it!

I was going to order a WP26 straight handle for the WP26, just as I ordered the WP20 straight (knurled) for the WP20, as all they had was the Fisher-Price style in both 15 and 25'.

The pics you posted are very helpful, and in reality, it looks like BOTH have a smaller radii than the WP26 I have now. I also went ahead and ordered a 1/16 and 3/32 gas-saver setup for it. Figure I might as well, I needed some 316L and 1/16 309L filler for some upcoming work, that covers the shipping and the gas saved may offset the cost there.

I'm still going to make a new cover for the last 5' of the torch, may make one for each torch now, that should make it a bit more flexible.

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Since you have a lathe, I'm sure you could take a piece of PVC pipe and whip up a handle to fit whatever torch body size you need.
There are denim covers for cables that are very soft and easy to move, maybe not as tough as leather, but would be a lot easier to deal with.

I still think the WP20 is the best all around torch for a shop setup, as it's small and can take 250 amps all day without even getting warm. But water cooling makes the portability an issue, and it sounds like working in long trailers you are going to have to haul things around no matter what. Also be aware that with the stubby hardware on a 17 torch, it can't handle the same current as with the big hardware. If you can, go to a LWS and put your hands on the different types before you make a decision.

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Originally Posted by Trip59

Will do. Need to wait till the RFQ goes out and gets approved. I was really wanting to go 25, but in thinking it further, I really don't TIG outside the shop much, a 15 would probably do ok, I'll have to move the welder into the trailers anyhow when I get to that (hopefully those) jobs... even a 25 won't reach the front of a 53' refrigerated trailer. Might save a couple more $$ too that way on the initial outlay.

Might be an order coming in, don't know, but Alex said in the 25's at least, the Euro style was all he had on hand.

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they make extensions for tig torches; or buy an extension cord to run from your field power. work i've done on trailers has generally been done with a spool gun, in fact 90 percent of my field work is done with a spool gun /30A and a fifty foot extension. just used it two nights ago to modify the truss work on a pedestrian bridge that spans 20 feet of water. since most of this work can be done with a big gun, i fail to see the necessity of having a tig torch that bends 180. the ability to do that means little in the real world.

i'll definitely concede that they euro torch supplied with the units is a big club. i tossed mine.

Don't have a spool gun capable machine... my MIG is a wee tiny machine and doesn't run AL, you work with what you've got. Plasma and a big 250 MIG are spring plans. Don't know when I'll get to the trailer, though I'm guessing sometime in December when he takes a month off.

Hadn't really thought about an extension setup for the torch, might be a good option, though for now, I can just drag the cart out. Still waiting on my electrician to get me a price for the cable to make an extension cord for welding, I know it isn't going to be cheap though.


I did think about spinning up a handle from PVC, but the fact that I always feel static when picking up PVC bothered me. I may wind up making one if things don't fit, but it'll more likely be a two piece deal or modified existing market handle.

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Originally Posted by Trip59

I may wind up making one if things don't fit, but it'll more likely be a two piece deal or modified existing market handle.

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You could call up a CK dealer and ask them how much to special order a CK part number "210HTR" or "210HTF", which are a replacement handles for the Trimline 210:
http://www.ckworldwide.com/form105/p16.pdf

I'll bet they don't cost very much, and may very well be compatible with your Everlast WP26.

Well... That ended up other than I'd like. Not thrilled with what came in. Due to UPS and the holiday, it came in after the holiday, not thrilled but ok. No way the wp9 handle is going to fit, hose connectors too big. No connectors on the hose, and the euro handle is every bit as big as the WP26. Going to call to see about a return tomorrow, figure I'll be out shipping two ways, but what I've got sitting here doesn't meet my needs at all, might as well stick with the WP26 I had.