I know using gas vs flux core produces way different results but why?
1> Why does gas provide a clean uniform weld?
2> Why does flux core splatter so violently compared to gas?
There's a large amount of energy released from both types of welding.
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I know using gas vs flux core produces way different results but why?
1> Why does gas provide a clean uniform weld?
2> Why does flux core splatter so violently compared to gas?
There's a large amount of energy released from both types of welding.
how come flux core wire is so much more brittle then regular wire
Flux core wire protects the weld from oxidation by covering(and reacting) the impurities(oxygen) with the flux. The result is slag, which coats the weld(on purpose). The sparking is an intersting question which I could guess about, but don't know for sure.
Gas prevents oxidation by covering the weld with an inert gas(which doens't oxidize the metal). The coating is done with gas itself. Because the inert gas doesn't create slag, the weld is clean. CO2 plays a part in the weld metallurgy that I don't understand, but I don't think it affects the "cleanliness" of the weld. There isn't any flux reactions going on with when using gas, so there won't be the sparking associated with flux utilizing welds.
Chris
Adding to Dynasim's response only to say that flux core welding is basically stick electrode welding in a more convenient form. The shielding is provided by the flux which is inside the wire instead of outside the rod. That also answer's DGarnier's question: flux core wire breaks easily because the metal sheath (filler metal) around the flux is comparatively thin. A little low-cycle stress breaks it easily.
Dave
A good and free resource for a lot of the questions you have can be found at the ESAB site they have a literature and poster area that lets you pick booklets and cds on Mig arc and tig welding.
check it out They sent what I asked for to my door for free and it arrived in less then a week.
DaveO,
I would conceed that there are some similarities between stick and flux core...But I believe the differences are stark...Flux is much different. Weld appearance is much different(not as pleasant to the eye). More spatter. Faster. More efficient. Also more difficult to do correctly. IMHO.
Yes, you're right- the thread drifted from the OP's original question, and I got caught up in the inert gas vs. flux shielding discussion.
Flux core only splatters violently when the arc length is too long close up the arc length and the spatter will be minimized
Fluxcore has better penetration
Well I know that you break / chip the slag off the flux core welds and the look nice. But the gas welds are beautiful and uniform. Is it just because not all of the slag can be removed?
When welding outside in the open air, you will normally be stick with stick or flux-core MIG. I do a bit of it and find my FC MIG welds look "almost" as good as using ER70 and mix gas. That is they look just fine and very small amount of spatter.
But as Wookie mentioned, I use a very tight arc length. If you pull back, you will have all the spatter you want. You should be able to get nice welds with flux core. You will have to clean it up, but hey, you can weld in the wind and do not have to lug around a gas bottle. It has it's place for me.
Thanks,
I'm hoping I can shoot some video of myself welding and post them via youtube link.
I have another question:,
What would you use to weld skid loader quick attach plates .25" thick with? Wire with upto approximately 120 amps or stick weld with a 3/32", 1/8", or 3/16"? I'm quite good with the MIG, but I really bomb out with a stick :/
All I use is .035 flux core with an .045 tip to keep it feeding smoothly. I've found that some brands of flux core wire aren't as clean and uniform as others, causing poor welds due to the wire dragging and sticking in the tip.
A tight arc and a truncated flux core shield on the torch help in making nice welds. I like having a fan on as well to keep me cool and blow the fumes away.
I like the fan idea. We have a 5 foot ventilation fan in our shop. It really blows!
Back to welding,
I forgot to mention that the plate ( 48"W X 18"H X .25"T ) has the bottom brackets that are 3/8" - 1/2" thick (where the skid loader attachment locks swing down and hook). That's where I am wondering if 120 amps worth of MIG will cut the mustard?
Thanks
I dont know a whole lot about mig but I know enough to say i dont think 120 amps whould quite be enough. We get a 250 amp miller in our shop and I think its only rated for 1/2 but thats in a single pass. If your welding to 1/2 inch you will prolly want to use stick and if your not to great then make a few passes cause that will make it stronger yet. Cause there is a lot of stress on that peice the lock goes in when your backdragging. What you might could do is use a 6011 to make a good root pass then go over that with your little mig. Does that sound about right to everyone?
Yeah tomorrow I will post a couple pictures of just practice welds. They are just me practicing getting good penetration, I wasn't even attempting to get uniform with the puddles. I do like that idea I'm wondering if I could possibly reverse your plan use the MIG to get the root pass since the main fill work will be on top. Then fill and cap with a 7018? I want the plates to be as durable or more than the loader we're mounting to. "Cause 'nothin runs like a Deere" they build skidloaders like tanks around here.
Thanks!
Actually maybe what would be the best is run a root with a 6011 cause its gonna penitrate more than anything then fill with the mig cause i looked up a 120 hobart mig in my northern and it says it welds 3/16 with flux core and 1/8 with solid plus sheilding gas so i would only use that for fill and up. And you can use a 7018 for the cap and that would work real good. I personally would arc the whole thing but I just love to arc weld a lot. lol.
O another tip if you use the mig maybe use .023" wire cause you can use that on its highest setting and go real slow with a slow wire speed and it will have a lot longer time melting it all then more penitration. One of my friends told me thats what they do for welding 1/2" hardened steel for his dads snow plows so it might work good for you. Just would have to go really slow and watch that puddle.
You hit it on the head! Some brands even corrode, we bought some wire about 8 months ago...it's so fouled up it hates feeding.. :/ I'm pretty certain it was even Hobart brand!Quote:
Originally Posted by zoama585
Thanks for the info Gabe. Now would it be okay to tack it just enough to hold it there with the MIG, then 6011 stick on the root? I have lot of problems with my starting technique, almost every time I put the rod to the metal it sticks. I think I would end up pulling my piece, to be welded, down or off. Would the stick just pass right over the MIG tack, as long as I don't put a big blob of there? I want to cap with 7018 low hydrogen rod. I'm uploading pictures now. "What am I doing wrong with the stick?"
Look at the shiny welds...rusty welds are someone else's farmer weld.
MIG(flux-core)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-S...0/101_0005.JPG
MIG(flux-core)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E...0/101_0006.JPG
MIG(flux-core)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-n...0/101_0007.JPG
My best weld with the stick
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J...0/101_0008.JPG
Kind of thick....I think....Your thoughts?
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z...0/101_0009.JPG
Another shot of the best welds I could get with stick..
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...0/101_0010.JPG
Top weld is my instructor's weld.....Bottom weld is mine....and so are the butt welds in the center. If I was going to buy a skidloader plate I wouldn't buy one with welds that looked like that center weld! Lame, Lame, and even more lamer. haha
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-X...0/101_0011.JPG
Yep, kinda messy!
I agree totally. Flux core is very useful outdoors in the wind and when the metal is dirty. Flux core seems to weld rusty metal really well....just like some sticks. I have welded together some really crappy rusted metal without having to clean it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by everlastsupport
My flux core welds are very splatter free and I believe it is because I use it enough to know how to keep the splatter down. It is my opinion that flux core welding is even more responsive to correct amp and speed settings than mig welding. My flux core use is about 55% of the time.
Is there a good technique to starting a stick electrode burning? Is it a stab motion or just barely touch it til it lights?
A match striking motion is what is used by many people. I use a tapping motion as you see in the videos I made on youtube. But it takes practice not to stick it.
Thank you. :D I will try that. Besides the butt joint welds how would you grade the welds? 1-10
Match strike here as well. I tap when I have more rod than flux on the end to get it started sometimes. Like Mark said, the tapping method take some practice.
What rod are you using in the pictures? 6011? And the welds look about like when I started. The main thing you got to do is be constant. Looks like your moving around a bit in your welds. I still catch myself do it sometimes. I think these are the best stick welding videos to learn from. It sure helped me greatly. http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/stick-welding.html Watch the "arc welding project everlast powerpro 256" and then the "sheilded metal arc welding" which is the third video down. Ive watched them numoris times and they help greatly, That and prolly over 40 lbs of rods. Also see how he props for welding at about 7 minutes on the arc welding project one. That is how I have been propping latly. It is my favorite and the most comfortable way i have found so for. I dont prop as close as he does but its basicly how I have been doing it and I love it. But back to the questions. Ok i think you also need to slow down a lot. I went way to fast too. Its amazing how slow you have to go to get a decent weld. 6011 is a faster moving rod but when you do your cover pass with a 7018 if you have 1/8" it will prolly be a new rod every 4-5" im guessing. You dont have to do any moving back or forth really. Look at my welds I posted a week ago. Thats about how they were. But back to your questions again. lol. It looks like your welds might be a bit cold too just because they didnt look like you were getting a good puddle that melts good around it. So i think what you need to do is slow down. Maybe bump the heat up a bit. Idk what your set at. And also try to steady yourself and be a bit smoother with you movements. Have a good comfey place to prop so you can comfortably do the whole weld. Also you asked if you can tack with the mig. Heck yeah! thats the best was to do it. I am thinking about getting a little cheep junker mig just for that. Because its so much easyier. Just try to keep your tacks smallish and if you think they are too big just grind them down a bit. Makes it better yet to weld over them. And you said you have a bit of a problem with starting the rods. Everyone does when they start out and in the first stages of learning it. I still do sometimes. But like they said srtike it like a match. Last year in ag with the people who were having trouble with starts my ag teacher would have them strike seleral inches long a few times before they are ready to start because it makes easyier starts. As time goes on you will do your own techneq like how mark says he taps. I kinda do a bit of both. Depends a lot on the situation. Your mig welds look good and smooth. They will be great for some fill. You should post some more pics with 7018 welds. Just do as much practice before you do the project as you can. Like they say practice makes perfect. Any more questions just keep them coming. I love talking about welding. lol
Wow thank you very much Gabe! You have a good eye for weld puddle guessing, it is 6011. When I was welding with the stick my dad was hovering making me really nervous.. His welder, his rods, his precious TV time lol, and his Right handed technique for a lefty..not the best. He was quite furious because I stuck 5 or 6 times in a row.. But I will be buying some 6011's and 7018's. Already got scrap metal in stock so I'll just work on my welder's tan, like a farmer tan, but a LOT darker ;) Thank for the compliment on my MIG flux-core welds. I've been using MIG since I was 12. I'm just out of the nasty teen years now, so I've been a MIG'er for about 8 years +/- days.. I will try slowing down, and get that puddle worked in deeper. I think I was running 105-115 amps..not really burning all that hot. It's hard to tell what it's set at anymore the unit is from the early 1940's. Bare spots in the cables, signs of aging haha! :P
Thanks a bunch,
That's a real tip!
Your vary welcome. And its fairly easy telling a 6010/11 from others because it has those ripples and how it can be spotty at times in places. Its because its a fast freeze and dont flow like any of the other ones. And lol. I know what you mean. When someone is watching you it makes you real nervive. And yeah. I just hate them times when it keeps sticking. And thats good. Practice practice practice. And haha. I had a sun burn last weekend from welding these grates for a job for my dads company. And welcome. Mig is something i havnt done a whole lot with. O your about 20. Well im just 15 still. LOl. Been arc weldiing since i was about 12-13 i think. And i believe that would help you greatly. Im not much on 6011. Havnt burned any for about a year. Ive prolly gone through 5-10 pounds of them since ive stared. Just been out for quite a while so i havnt been able to for quite some time. And is it 105 for 1/8". I think you need to upgrade your welder. get you a powerarc 200. Ive bought one but im waiting on the shipment to come in. But what i have heard is they run real nice. I cant wait to get mine. My first welder i bought was a old lincoln electric 225. Gave 50 for it to my friends grandpa. Great thing to have back in a corner cause its always gonna work but i believe its time to upgrade to dc so i went with everlast. For the price cant beat it. Just hope its gonna be reliable.
haha enjoy what you have left of your teen years, 20's hit suddenly. Now that I think about it, it may not be getting as hot as I need because I'm using standard 6011 rod's with an AC buzz box.. I wonder if switching to AC rods would be better for now til a PA200 or PA300 comes along.....?
There's a chart here that says most electrodes can be used with either AC or DC:
http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/FM_handbook/577fm1_2.htm
And heat should be a matter of adjusting your welding amperage.
Well I guess as Gabe mentioned it is a fast freezing puddle. 7018's are a little better. I'm looking forward to posting pictures after putting all this knowledge to use.
o ill try to. And 6011 is a ac or dc rod but primarly ac. I think running 1/8" 6011 i run them about 90 or 95. Now know this, they vary sometimes greatly between brands. In ag we had some 1/8" 6011 we were running and 90 was way too hot. They were crazy burning. I turned mine down a knoch or two and they calmed down. Some might need a bit more than 90. Just got to play around with it and find what runs them the best. And you should be fine running the ones you got. Like i said 6011 will sometimes run better on ac. And 7018 is my altime favorite. But they dont run the best on ac without getting the 7018 ac and they run just fine. But yeah post all the pics you want. Ill certeq them and try and help you all i can.
Well tomorrow's welding day. Cleaned the shop tonight. Tonight my brother and I were welding with combine batteries in series 24vDC. It eats rods, but it's funnier than all get out. Got it on video, I will post some of it in the Chat Lounge :P
Thanks for all the help and tips!
Are you gonna take pics along the way and use it as one of the projects for the contest. And haha i seen that on youtube once. And your vary welcome. Any time
Here's the link:
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...5166#post15166