Problems with pp256

[performance]

You're preaching to the choir on this one. I don't know why we haven't at this point, only that it has been a point of price.
I'll try to see when/if we are making the switch.

[everlastsupport]

Mark nor I decide how we ship. And it has been made very clear on UPS and DHL before that. But people want a good price, the free shipping or low cost shipping. I am sure sale will ship it however you like for a price. Just have to ask.

[dgarnier]

i can unstand the price thing but it seems like everlast has to pick up quite a bit of shipping back and fourth where if the the machines were packed better, everlast would not have to spend so much in return shipping cost.

[performance]

OK,
I spoke with Oleg about it directly just now.
It is a money issue. We have instituted new shipping charges, to control added costs. But these are designed to fit into UPS's charges. Fed Ex's are about 40% more. So, we will be able to ship Fed Ex, but since they do not give us the deep discount that UPS does, we will pass it along to the customer. So for a 40% upcharge in shipping, at the customer's request we will ship Fed Ex.

[ASE_MasterTech]

I did receive a PP256 from Everlast recently & it did come with an additional 'bubble wrap' layer on the outside.
A few days later I received a Longevity WeldAll 250PI (a somewhat comparable unit) along with some other items, which were terribly packaged.
The Everlast 'package' definitely appeared in much better condition upon arrival, but that's still doesn't assure me that it wasn't damaged prior to being sent by the company I purchased it from (YOU, not some Chinese factory).
So my beef is, why are these units not re-tested by Everlast USA after traveling from China? have you ever seen how horribly shipping containers are handled? loaded sideways, dropped by cranes, etc..?
BTW, I will do a fair & unbiased 'comparison' for those interested, of the Everlast & Longevity products I have (including packaging, any problems & the resolutions, & of course technical support) & will include pics & vids as soon as I get the chance.

[dgarnier]

OK,
I spoke with Oleg about it directly just now.
It is a money issue. We have instituted new shipping charges, to control added costs. But these are designed to fit into UPS's charges. Fed Ex's are about 40% more. So, we will be able to ship Fed Ex, but since they do not give us the deep discount that UPS does, we will pass it along to the customer. So for a 40% upcharge in shipping, at the customer's request we will ship Fed Ex.

sounds good, 40% upcharge on free shipping...last time I checked 40% more of 0 is 0

[performance]

Maybe, you didn't read my post fully...We have already instituted new shipping charges.< NO MORE FREE SHIPPING> These will be in addition to the current shipping charges.

[performance]

Sure we can test them additionally here, but when we send a person to the factory when they are produced, to test personally, that is a redundant thing. And to test the volume of welders that we sell after they get here will incur significant additional price increases and a large test facility. Overhead increases cost to the customer... We have spot checked units once they come in and never found any significant damage issues related to that. In fact I remember a before/after scenario we had with one customer where we took a picture before, and he sent us a picture...after ups used its wrecking ball. If you want to pay an additional 200 bucks, per unit, we can add that kind of facility...Everything we do, additionally costs additionally...When I have checked units myself, for different reasons, it usually takes an hour to go through a complete check list and live test of all the features and functions without any test equipment attached. Additionally, you have to think of the additional costs associated with this, such as consumables, shielding gas, test stations, sufficient MATERIAL to test on, recycling etc. When you add in even more additional test equipment, load banks etc, it can take several hours per unit. These units are looked at with scopes and put on load banks, if I understand Duncan correctly over there already. The factory has upgraded facilities and its production lines. Things are not perfect, but the factory is serious about improving quality.

But it boils down to the fact, we offer a reasonable price to the customer for a well performing machine...IF the customer doesn't want to assume the responsibility of vetting the unit once it arrives for the consideration of the price they pay, then they should buy another product. We do the MOST we can for the price the customer pays. We have slowly edged up the price to include more and better things, including the packaging. And things will be continuing, as price climbs...but it is not going to happen overnight nor will instituting all this at once.

[dgarnier]

wow that was fast to bump up the shipping charge, but still the dealer locator is messed up. The pp256 is still list as an industrail machine...cant wait for machines to show up broken and then get charged 50$ on top of it...

[ASE_MasterTech]

Sure we can test them additionally here, but when we send a person to the factory when they are produced, to test personally, that is a redundant thing. And to test the volume of welders that we sell after they get here will incur significant additional price increases and a large test facility. Overhead increases cost to the customer... We have spot checked units once they come in and never found any significant damage issues related to that.

OK, so lets use your "new car" analogy from a previous post in this thread. When you purchase a new car it is still 'prepped' (ie-inspected/prepared) locally for the purchasing customer regardless where the vehicle comes from, at very little additional expense (relative to customer cost), this is called 'quality control'.
There is an old business adage that states " I can provide what you need three ways, good-fast-cheap, choose two...
The problem with your 'business' plan, as you've stated, is that it focuses on only one - cheap.
This in itself is a recipe for inevitable failure. (ie-lack of consumer product confidence).

[performance]

ASE,
In many dealerships, everything, including the PDI is itemized and added on. Destination charges, and prep charges are added while the shown cost is low. Whether they include it in the price or itemize it, you are still charged for it.

You really don't know how much we work on things behind the scenes, on holding cost down to the customer while maximizing quality.. I don't think its got anything to do with cheap...but cost is a consideration. Its about maximizing service for the price we provide. We have and we are. Service is a priority. But we realize that doing anything additionally will cost the customer more. We fit a market segment, and a price point with our welders. To do more will cost more. We offer a lot for what the customer pays as it is. Other than you, we generally receive compliments on the product and service. Most people don't expect a Cadillac OnStar service on a hyundai budget (both are great cars and well liked but for different reasons)...However, our customers are generally surprised by how much they do get. We are always looking for ways to do more, and improve our efficiency to deliver to the customer...sometimes you reach a limit, unless a price changes. I am sure Oleg will be glad to have your unit checked intensely if you send him another couple hundred dollars. In fact, I will personally check it out myself for that.

As far as lack of customer confidence, all I can say is we are growing by about 20% or more annually, and the name brands are shrinking, and laying off people. And our growth has been limited by "underestimating" the market sales potential and just can't keep up with orders. We have survived bumps and bruises and are in our 8th year. So, all things considered, most of our customers tell me we are doing a decent job, especially for what they have paid.

[ASE_MasterTech]

OK.. I have no problem with your argument/point of view, it is valid & well put.
However, I think at the very least you (Everlast) should be more up front & clear regarding warranty/return policies, ie-"we ship from China factory directly to you without further examination or testing, please examine & use within 30 days of receipt for full warranty"

[performance]

We have a lot of statements regarding this in our warranty statement explicitly stating nearly the same thing:

After the 30 day satisfaction guarantee period is over, the customer may NOT return a unit for a refund for ANY reason. The responsibility of the customer is to ensure that the unit has been fully tested and evaluated within the 30 day time period allotted. At the close of the 30 day period, all sales are considered final and no refund will be given.

Items damaged or nonfunctional upon arrival: Everlast will gladly exchange it free of charge. It is the customer's responsibility; however to immediately notify the sales support team of the issue. Prompt reporting of this condition is required. Delayed opening of the package may result in denial of claim and waving of rights of free replacement.

The customer should download the appropriate operator's manual directly from the website and read the manual completely by the time the unit arrives so that prompt and safe testing of the unit will not be delayed. The unit must be tested "live" within the designated 48 hour time frame to meet the demands of the shippers damaged product return policy.

The customer is entirely responsible to inspect the item for any damages at time of delivery. If the customer fails to inspect the item, the shipping company may not take responsibility for any damages occurring during shipment which are discovered at a later time. If the unit appears undamaged, it is the customer's responsibility to test out the unit as soon as possible to ensure proper operation. Early unit failure can be a result of hidden internal damages during shipping. The customer should not delay in opening the package and promptly testing the unit with a "live" test of all functions. Units not promptly tested for shipping damage MAY result in the shipper denying the damage claim and the unit being shipped back at customer's expense.

In the event of unit failure or malfunction, the customer must contact EVERLAST to obtain an RMA number and a location of a designated return/repair facility. The replacement unit will then be returned to the customer. EVERLAST will cover the shipping charges both ways for domestic customers located in the lower 48 states that have units in need of warranty within the first 30 days from the purchase date. After the 30 days from the purchase date, the customer shall be responsible for all shipping and handling costs both ways of non-functioning units for repair or replacement.

Note: in cases where the purchase/shipping date don't match up, and a pre order is effect it will be determined by the shipping date.

[everlastsupport]

I am sure Oleg will be glad to have your unit checked intensely if you send him another couple hundred dollars. In fact, I will personally check it out myself for that.

Count me in on the personally testing units for people for a couple hundred each.

If we ship 100 units in a day and every one was tested here in the US or not, there will still be a couple that get damaged. At 50-70 lbs, you have to trust us on that one or use common sense. They are all packaged the same way. Only the broken units show up here on the forums, why would a customer with a working unit bother to post here. Though a small few do.

I can imagine the calls by the customers complaining the unit looks used. We still get plasma cutter customers that call and tell us the unit is used. The torches are test fired by the factory so the consumable on the torch shows it was fired.

Mark did not mention. He, myself and other Everlast employees "use" our products and actually weld. I personally no longer own anything but Everlast equipment. Our products, bar none, are great.

If every happy customer came to the forum it would make this posting contest look like nothing. Shipping damage is something everyone deals with, though probably less of a problem if I ordered a car and had it shipped. Maybe order 100 cars, one might have a dent or chip on it?

On the DOA shipping, we have always paid both ways, this is nothing new. But you need to report it right away, not months later. If you spend $1000 or $2000 on a product, I would think you would be all over it the day you received it. I know I would.

[Rugar]

ASE,
Most people don't expect a Cadillac OnStar service on a hyundai budget

LMAO! You now owe me a new keyboard! I just blew coffee out of my nose all over it!

[dirtyfarmer]

I waited all day for the UPS truck, when I knew my PP256 was coming, camera in hand. My wife thought I was nuts. Truck finally showed at 5:00pm. Here are pics of that momentous occasion.

[Rugar]

I waited all day for the UPS truck, when I knew my PP256 was coming, camera in hand. My wife thought I was nuts. Truck finally showed at 5:00pm. Here are pics of that momentous occasion.

Box looks in fairly good shape. How about the contents?

[dirtyfarmer]

I guess I got lucky. Everything inside looked great also. Wife was waiting to go out, so I couldn't even unpack it until the next day. Had everything I needed ready to check out the unit. It all worked fine except for intermittent starting of the plasma cutter. Found the pilot arc post loose. Had to remove the cover to tighten the terminal on the inside.

[dirtyfarmer]

In case anybody is curious, this is what a PP256 looks like with the cover off. Pretty darn crowded inside! (pictures taken June 2010)

[ASE_MasterTech]

ASE,
Most people don't expect a Cadillac OnStar service on a hyundai budget

The irony in this comparison could not be greater.
Here you have a fabulous success story wrapped around one of the the fastest growing Automobile manufacturers (Hyundai Motors) to date, which was built on the industry leading warranty they've always offered (10yrs/100k) to assure their customers of quality, even at 'discount' prices.
On the other hand there's Cadillac, a company that cannot come close to the customer satisfaction of its competitors for the money in it's class (ie- Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Audi, etc..), whom would not be in business without a 'bailout', & who's parent company (General Motors) seriously considered closing the doors on even after the 'bailout'.

As Hyundai has proven, just because I choose value over glitter doesn't mean I should expect less. Perhaps Everlast might benefit taking a page or two from the "Hyundai way to build a successful company marketing value products via superior customer service"

Just a suggestion..