Wiring up my 250ex

[dgarnier]

Ok got my wires run, 6awg is not much fun to work with. Got the outlet all wired up and checked it out with the meter and everything is looking good. Then made of an cord so that I will be able to get the welder any where in the garage.

Thanks again guys for taking the time to explain 220/110 sounds like I was not the only one that was not sure

[kenwhite]

Ok got my wires run, 6awg is not much fun to work with. Got the outlet all wired up and checked it out with the meter and everything is looking good. Then made of an cord so that I will be able to get the welder any where in the garage.

Thanks again guys for taking the time to explain 220/110 sounds like I was not the only one that was not sure

You are correct, 6AWG can be a real pain to run, but your wleder will work so much better on the higher amperage settings so it will be worth it.

[aaxiss]

how can you determine what wire you have running to the outlet. Right now I have a 220 outlet for my IR compressor . would I run a separate line for the welder Or just do like I have been doing with the buzzbox and unplug the compressor. I dont know if the compressor circuit is strong enough to carry the load of both a welder and compressor at the same time.

Is there any way to tell how many amps your service is? like is it marked on the panel somewhere?

[performance]

First, if it was wired to code, then your breaker will tell you if you are referring to the branch circuit. Most newer houses are 200 amp service. Second, wire size and distance (gauge) limits you according to wiring codes as well. I have a feeling both your compressor and your welder won't work on the same circuit at the same time.

[everlastsupport]

how can you determine what wire you have running to the outlet. Right now I have a 220 outlet for my IR compressor . would I run a separate line for the welder Or just do like I have been doing with the buzzbox and unplug the compressor. I dont know if the compressor circuit is strong enough to carry the load of both a welder and compressor at the same time.

Is there any way to tell how many amps your service is? like is it marked on the panel somewhere?

dgarnier, 6 gauge is good as Ken said. And well worth it.

[dgarnier]

how can you determine what wire you have running to the outlet. Right now I have a 220 outlet for my IR compressor . would I run a separate line for the welder Or just do like I have been doing with the buzzbox and unplug the compressor. I dont know if the compressor circuit is strong enough to carry the load of both a welder and compressor at the same time.

Is there any way to tell how many amps your service is? like is it marked on the panel somewhere?

take a look at the breaker and see what size wire it has, the size should be printed on the wire itself every foot or so

[A/C Guy]

how can you determine what wire you have running to the outlet. Right now I have a 220 outlet for my IR compressor . would I run a separate line for the welder Or just do like I have been doing with the buzzbox and unplug the compressor. I dont know if the compressor circuit is strong enough to carry the load of both a welder and compressor at the same time.

Is there any way to tell how many amps your service is? like is it marked on the panel somewhere?

Most home compressors only need a 20 amp or 30 amp circuit. You should run a dedicated circuit for the welder. If they are on the same circuit and the compressor tries to start, there will be a very large voltage drop for that second or two. Your welder won't like that huge voltage drop.

[dgarnier]

First, NEVER, NEVER, connect ground to neutral at an appliance. Never use neutral for ground and never use ground for neutral. The only time you need a neutral is when you need 110. 110 is either leg connected to neutral. 220 is one 110 leg connected to the other. Driers and stoves use the neutral for clocks, timers, control pads, etc. The 220 is for the heating elements. The welder only uses 220 and ground.

Edit to add: Read the first post. The red wire on your welder is NOT for residential use. It is only for 3 phase power. The Black and White on your cord are for your 110 volt legs; green is always ground.

Machine BLACK to wall BLACK
Machine WHITE to wall RED
Machine GREEN to wall BARE (GREEN)
Machine RED and wall WHITE are not used.

I really hate to bring this back up, but I am still not clear on something. On the 110 side the netural is the return side to complete the circuit. The ground comes into play if you loose the netural leg and the current needs to go somewhere. If that is true then for 220 wouldnt you want to use the 2 hot legs and then wire the ground from the welder to the netural wire. From the 110 the netural is always taking the return from the hot leg, why not use it to dump current in the case where you loose one of the hot legs for 220?

[kenwhite]

I really hate to bring this back up, but I am still not clear on something. On the 110 side the netural is the return side to complete the circuit. The ground comes into play if you loose the netural leg and the current needs to go somewhere. If that is true then for 220 wouldnt you want to use the 2 hot legs and then wire the ground from the welder to the netural wire. From the 110 the netural is always taking the return from the hot leg, why not use it to dump current in the case where you loose one of the hot legs for 220?

The neutral is only used as the return path back to the transformer for the 2-120 VAC phases.

For a 240 VAC connection, one of the hot phases acts as the return path back to the transformer, so no neutral is needed.

However, a safety ground is always needed. The safety ground is tied to the neutral back at the service entrance point, but it should never carry current unless there is a fault - it protects against the chassis/metal case from becoming hot and shocking you should you touch something that is grounded.

[dgarnier]

So what is the harm in using the neutral as ground for 220? Both the ground and neutral give the current a path to return rather then grounding through someone that might be touching the machine?

[DaveO]

I'd bet there are a number of machines running on a 30 amp dryer outlet. If you're doing this, do you mind commenting about how the machine operates at the high end of power demand? For instance, to weld on very thick material, do you see a change in the machine's performance?

Reason I ask: at my place the breaker panel is on the opposite side of the house from where I'd like to use the welder, so a totally new circuit would be difficult. If the machines run well or well enough on a 30 amp circuit then that would relieve some of the problem- location would not be ideal but I could work with it.

[performance]

One reason is high frequency issues.

[aaxiss]

The breaker in the panel is a 40 amp breaker going to the 220v compressor and I have been using it with the old Lincoln buzzbox for a number of years. I always unplug the compressor because I only have a one outlet. I have never popped the breaker, the sub panel the shop was installed to code by an electrician .

I suppose I should rephrase the question and provide more info . The house was built mid 60's and my question is ho do I tell how many amps are avail at the sub panel in the shop?, If I wanted to put in another dedicated welder circuit. The panel has room for the breaker and running the 6ga would not be a problem but I don't want to wast my time if the sub panel wont support a 50 or 60 amp line. Is there a way to tell how many total amps the service to the house is and the what the amperage to the sub panel is . Like markings on the panel or inside?

And Being That I will mostly be welding below the maximum output of the welder would it be ok to continue to use the 40 amp circuit. Iv'e never Popped the breaker Yet during normal welding with the lincoln ( usually in the 90 to 160 amp range ) except once when I had the welder and compressor On a Y adapter after the shop was built 5 years ago. now I make sure compressor is full then plug welder in . I would Like to be able to use both with a dedicated line for each if possible though I just want to be able to know ahead of time before I call out the electrician and get told no and charged for a service call .

thanks

[performance]

Don,
Being built in the 60's there is a high likelyhood that there is aluminum wiring in your house. I would definitely stay away from using an underrated circuit.

[aaxiss]

NO the 220v 40 amp circuit I am talking about is in the 5yr old shop. new square D sub panel and breakers. it's just a 40 amp Circuit for a huge 220v 80 gal dual stage IR compressor. I know if I dont crank the new welder up I shouldn't have any problems, but I have numerous air tools ( HS grinders, scalers, drills ect ) That are convenient to use and having to unplug the welder to use my air grinder has been a pain. now with a higher amp capability welder on the way I figure it's time to look into installing a dedicated welder outlet.

[DiabolicZ]

Ok guys, I am officially confused.

I decided to upgrade my wiring to 6 gauge for a 50 amp breaker. I have 1 white(126v) 1 black(126v) and 1 green(ground/common?).
Here are the pictures of how I have it wired. And nothing is coming on. My plasma cutter doesn't come on nor my welder, but I get 126v from the ground to one leg and then another 126v from the ground to the other leg (on the outlet where the welder plugs in).



The way I used to have it wired up was essentially the exact same way with 10g wire though. Although I had 5 wires. One red(power) one black(power) and then a green a white and an orange. The last three(grn wht orng) I just twisted all together and put them in the ground plug, essentially what I have done with just the green above in the pictures. Then on the box, the org,grn and wht all went to the same ground block with their own screws. My welder and my p cutter worked just fine that way the other day until I took it all apart and upgraded wiring to this current situation.

This new wiring is on a brand new 50amp breaker. I don't suspect the breaker because I am getting 126.2v X 2 (white and black) all the way down to the plug where the welder plugs in. Last time I had it wired into my 50 amp breaker that ran my stove.

Any idea's as to what is going on? Cause this is really stumping me. The only new parts are the 6 gauge cable and the 50 amp breaker. Everything else (the outlet) was working before and I have reused.

The old 50 amp breaker that I USED TO USE/tie into, you can see up in the top left corner. It is a physically bigger breaker, but still just 50 amps, for my stove. That is the breaker everything worked fine on.

[dgarnier]

with a volt meter check between the white and black wires at the plug - should be 240. Then check from the white to the green should be 120 and back to green should be 120

hard to tell form the pic, but are you sure you have the white and black wires on there own hot leg? where does the black wire form your new cord hook up to the breaker?

[ducksface]

It's official; I'm going to spend the $60 or so to have my system checked out and change my line to breaker wires to 5's and that such stuff.
You are all making it sound WAAAAYYY too easy. I am going to buy a factory built extension cord and I'm NOT doing any of the wiring myself. I'd like to have the nice clean HF and the correct voltages....

[Rivets]

Ok guys, I am officially confused.

I decided to upgrade my wiring to 6 gauge for a 50 amp breaker. I have 1 white(126v) 1 black(126v) and 1 green(ground/common?).
Here are the pictures of how I have it wired. And nothing is coming on. My plasma cutter doesn't come on nor my welder, but I get 126v from the ground to one leg and then another 126v from the ground to the other leg (on the outlet where the welder plugs in).



The way I used to have it wired up was essentially the exact same way with 10g wire though. Although I had 5 wires. One red(power) one black(power) and then a green a white and an orange. The last three(grn wht orng) I just twisted all together and put them in the ground plug, essentially what I have done with just the green above in the pictures. Then on the box, the org,grn and wht all went to the same ground block with their own screws. My welder and my p cutter worked just fine that way the other day until I took it all apart and upgraded wiring to this current situation.

This new wiring is on a brand new 50amp breaker. I don't suspect the breaker because I am getting 126.2v X 2 (white and black) all the way down to the plug where the welder plugs in. Last time I had it wired into my 50 amp breaker that ran my stove.

Any idea's as to what is going on? Cause this is really stumping me. The only new parts are the 6 gauge cable and the 50 amp breaker. Everything else (the outlet) was working before and I have reused.

The old 50 amp breaker that I USED TO USE/tie into, you can see up in the top left corner. It is a physically bigger breaker, but still just 50 amps, for my stove. That is the breaker everything worked fine on.

Hi Diabolic,

The reason your welder won't work is because you installed a "mini" double breaker, which connects to only one leg of your panel.

If you can physically slip it down half a space in your panel, it will work.
Otherwise, you will have to get the same larger breaker as before.

HTH,
rivets

[DiabolicZ]

with a volt meter check between the white and black wires at the plug - should be 240. Then check from the white to the green should be 120 and back to green should be 120

hard to tell form the pic, but are you sure you have the white and black wires on there own hot leg? where does the black wire form your new cord hook up to the breaker?

Ok, I checked between the white and the black and my voltage is only 1.9mv. So it has to be because each wire is not on it's own hot leg like you said, right? I'm sure this is what was being discussed before now. I think the breaker I installed only installs on on leg. If you look at these pictures, the 50amp breaker with the aluminum wire takes up two slots (two legs?) The one I got only takes up one slot (1 leg?) You can see below it that there is one more slot (leg?) available. I figured I would save some room by doing that. Turns out that was the wrong way to go about it. That sucks, now I have to go and buy the DOUBLE size breaker that installs on two legs I think. Wouldn't be so bad if these weren't discontinued breakers that cost $70 from Home Depot.