Wiring up my 250ex

[DiabolicZ]

Ok, I got it to work. Once you mentioned the "Legs" it all came together.

Basically this is what I did.

This is how I had it set up when I was getting 1.9mv


And then I moved a half of a slot down so it was bridging two "legs". Now I get 251 volts from black to white.

[DiabolicZ]

Hi Diabolic,

The reason your welder won't work is because you installed a "mini" double breaker, which connects to only one leg of your panel.

If you can physically slip it down half a space in your panel, it will work.
Otherwise, you will have to get the same larger breaker as before.

HTH,
rivets

Thank you rivits. That is the light bulb that clicked on in my head as soon as ducksawz mentioned "legs" again. So that is what I tried before I saw your post and replied. Then I realized you had posted exactly what I had just figured out. Thank you though.

[Rivets]

[QUOTE=DiabolicZ;7323]Ok, I checked between the white and the black and my voltage is only 1.9mv. So it has to be because each wire is not on it's own hot leg like you said, right? I'm sure this is what was being discussed before now. I think the breaker I installed only installs on on leg. If you look at these pictures, the 50amp breaker with the aluminum wire takes up two slots (two legs?) The one I got only takes up one slot (1 leg?) You can see below it that there is one more slot (leg?) available. I figured I would save some room by doing that. Turns out that was the wrong way to go about it. That sucks, now I have to go and buy the DOUBLE size breaker that installs on two legs I think. Wouldn't be so bad if these weren't discontinued breakers that cost $70 from Home Depot.

Yes,

One slot, one leg.
Two slots, two legs.

Which is why you're get getting no voltage between your white and black leads.
You are essentially trying to measure a voltage between two points on the same bus bar (leg).

HTH,
rivets

[dgarnier]

one more thing to check out on the mini 50 breaker you have there now. Are both poles tied together so it one trips the other one is tripped as well? If not and 1 side grounds out and trips the other side will stay hot. On the big 50amp breakers see how the switches the two poles are switched together..that way if 1 side trips they both get tripped.

[DiabolicZ]

one more thing to check out on the mini 50 breaker you have there now. Are both poles tied together so it one trips the other one is tripped as well? If not and 1 side grounds out and trips the other side will stay hot. On the big 50amp breakers see how the switches the two poles are switched together..that way if 1 side trips they both get tripped.

Yes, I was concerned about this when I first saw it, but they are tied together internally. I mentioned this problem of one side tripping and not the other earlier in the thread with my water heater. Took me a while to figure out what the hell happened because the breaker did not look like it had tripped. That metal sleeve over the switch allowed one side of the breaker to trip, but not flip all the way open.

Either way, if one tripped and the other stayed on, my machine would still shut down, similar to the problem I was just having with the breaker being mounted on one pole and not two. I would only be seeing 110/120v on one side, and my machine would not operate. At least I think right?

Oh well, yes they are tied together with an internal bar of sorts. You can sort of see it in the picture running through the switch levers.

[performance]

That configuration is a fire hazard. I would not rest easy with that in place. For one, each leg is 50 amps here and the breaker will not trip properly. Its not a total of 50 amps, its a total of 100.
Plus it is undersized and small. The piggy back breakers are expensive to start with, and are a way to cheat a panel box. A regular 220 Breaker is much cheaper.

[Rivets]

That configuration is a fire hazard. I would not rest easy with that in place. For one, each leg is 50 amps here and the breaker will not trip properly. Its not a total of 50 amps, its a total of 100. (snip)

Mark,

That is incorrect.

This configuration is electrically identical to a full size (physically) 50 amp double breaker.

If you draw a circuit diagram, you will notice that the two breakers are actually in SERIES with each other and the load, (one on each side), so the total ampacity is still 50 amps.

Cheers,
rivets

[DiabolicZ]

I would also like to point out that I have an old General Pacific breaker box. They do not make them anymore. Because of this I am VERY limited on the breakers I can use. Normal breakers at Home Depot go for under $10. The breaker I need is $70 at Home Depot. When searching on the internet, I could not even find a breaker that was the full size for my box for 50 amps.

[DiabolicZ]

So my daughters were watching a movie last night. I went out to weld in the garage. My oldest comes out after I made a tack weld. "Daddy! Something is happening!"

I go inside and she tells me that the TV picture was going crazy and there was a loud buzzing sound coming from the stereo speakers.

I have this machine on its own dedicated breaker.

[performance]

You don't have your HF bolt grounded...or you are using a neutral for a ground wire.

[Robert s]

So my daughters were watching a movie last night. I went out to weld in the garage. My oldest comes out after I made a tack weld. "Daddy! Something is happening!"

I go inside and she tells me that the TV picture was going crazy and there was a loud buzzing sound coming from the stereo speakers.

I have this machine on its own dedicated breaker.

Yes I also think if you ground the HF bolt it will stop all the buzzzzzing. My PP50 buzzed the TV in the office till I grounded it.

P.S. it drove my wife crazier in the office doing bills and talking to customers on the cordless phone.

[DiabolicZ]

Yes I also think if you ground the HF bolt it will stop all the buzzzzzing. My PP50 buzzed the TV in the office till I grounded it.

P.S. it drove my wife crazier in the office doing bills and talking to customers on the cordless phone.

The HF bolt you say? Would that be a high frequency bolt? And where would said bolt be located?

[performance]

If its your lincoln, it'll be on the back...or that's where its at on the 225 Lincolns. You'll need a bonded ground

[kenwhite]

...You are essentially trying to measure a voltage between two points on the same bus bar (leg).

HTH,
rivets

Yep, he was on the same phase so there was no difference in potential between the measurement points...

[everlastsupport]

The HF bolt you say? Would that be a high frequency bolt? And where would said bolt be located?

Back low on most of our units.

[kenwhite]

Mark,

That is incorrect.

This configuration is electrically identical to a full size (physically) 50 amp double breaker.

If you draw a circuit diagram, you will notice that the two breakers are actually in SERIES with each other and the load, (one on each side), so the total ampacity is still 50 amps.

Cheers,
rivets

Yep, I agree....

[kenwhite]

The HF bolt you say? Would that be a high frequency bolt? And where would said bolt be located?

If you are adding an HF ground strap, make sure you use a large diameter, as short as possible, multi-strand wire since the high frequency noise signal will want to ride on the outer surface of the copper strand and not within the center sectional area of the wire. This phenomena is called skin effect. The use of multi-strand wire increases the outer surface area where the signal resides.

[DiabolicZ]

If you are adding an HF ground strap, make sure you use a large diameter, as short as possible, multi-strand wire since the high frequency noise signal will want to ride on the outer surface of the copper strand and not within the center sectional area of the wire. This phenomena is called skin effect. The use of multi-strand wire increases the outer surface area where the signal resides.

In my Lincoln manual, it says to run a 3/4" diameter galvanized pipe 8' into the ground and then ground my welder to that. These seems like it would be a pretty standard thing. I'm assuming this would work just fine for the Everlast units as well.

Also, are you talking about just a steel woven cable essentially? Based on your comment above, some of them have a copper strand I take it? Assuming I can just grab this from home depot when I go to get my galvanized pipe.

[aaxiss]

Wouldn't a copper rod be a better choice for a grounding rod?, I know the one's on the house and also the new shop both have copper. the house has one because it's very old and all the outlets were only 2 prong with no ground and they were updated to the standard 2 prong with ground at a later time and under the house there are a number of them . I assume for the different circuits.

[kenwhite]

In my Lincoln manual, it says to run a 3/4" diameter galvanized pipe 8' into the ground and then ground my welder to that. These seems like it would be a pretty standard thing. I'm assuming this would work just fine for the Everlast units as well.

Also, are you talking about just a steel woven cable essentially? Based on your comment above, some of them have a copper strand I take it? Assuming I can just grab this from home depot when I go to get my galvanized pipe.

Most grounding rods are copper clad steel, but I am sure that 3/4" galvanized pipe will work too especially since it has more surface area for the HF signal to follow.

If you have any old welding cable it makes a pretty good ground cable for the HF signal since it provides a low impedance path, or any type of multi-strand copper cable will work too.

Most HAM shacks use ground strap that is composed of bare, tinned, copper conductors that are laid flat and woven into about an inch wide, but it is kind of spendy...