PowerArc 200 with no 6010 port

[Scooter]

I just read on another forum where a guy just received his PA 200 and there is no 6010 connector on the front of the machine. He posted a picture. With all the hype about how good the PA200 welds with the 6010 port why did you remove it from the machine? Does this mean the PA200 will not weld 6010? Very disappointing because mine will be here Monday.

[performance]

Scooter,
That shouldn't be. We'll take a look at it. We did NOT remove it.
Where is the forum?

[Scooter]

Hi Mark it is at Tractorbynet on your welding forum. Thanks Mark

[performance]

I did just get a reply from the factory that it was revamped, to work for BOTH 6010 and 7018 in the same port. I am little miffed on being left out of "their" decision to change, since we haven't asked for any change. Scooter, when you get it try it. If it doesn't work on 6010 well, then we will make it right.

[Titan winch]

The PowerArc 200 with the 2 ports has been revamped and to be honest this model should not have been sent out yet. The factory jumped the gun on this one.

The 6010 Port is designed to have a 31V ( normal Pos is 21V ) current and is made to accept up to a 3.2MM electrode @ 160 amps , with a max of 180amps . At 200 amps you can overheat the rectifiers and possibly burn out the port. This is not a problem if the unit is used for 6010 rods and used within it,s parameters and to be perfectly honest we have never had any issues with this little unit to date.
However by adding the 31V capacity to the Positive port this eliminates any potential for this to happen.
This Morning i saw a number of 2 port 200s getting ready to be packaged and these are destined for Australia but i have had them pulled and they will be replaced with the 3 port 200s over the next couple of days.
I personally prefer the 2 port units but untill we advertise any changes we can not just replace them with no advance warning. But for 2011 i think this will be something that will be seen on our Power Arc 200 units.

[Haywire]

It's nice to know what made the 3rd port special. How will the 10 extra volts on the positive port affect welding with other than 6010 rod?

Ian

[performance]

From a note Duncan sent me, the new one still has the high voltage when you slip the 6010 in, but it powers down to the lower voltage when the 7018 is slipped in. Duncan will Correct me if I misunderstood. How it accomplishes this, I don't know.

[Haywire]

Must have that chip they scavenged from the first Terminator's arm.

Ian

[wruehl]

From a note Duncan sent me, the new one still has the high voltage when you slip the 6010 in, but it powers down to the lower voltage when the 7018 is slipped in. Duncan will Correct me if I misunderstood. How it accomplishes this, I don't know.

Mark, not trying to be a PITA but I really do not think the machine can detect what kind of rod its got. Perhaps they just split the difference on the voltage and called it good enough? Or they used the chip from the Terminator.

[Haywire]

Sure it can, it's got an optic sensor on the electrode holder that reads the print on the base of the rod when you stick it in. Just having a little fun with it, no dig intended.

Ian

[performance]

Wruehl,

A 6010 has distinct arc charachteristics, causing it to stick with normal voltage.

Here is a comment he made: the change has upped the pos to 31 volts for 6010 rods and still lets the 21 volts run as normal.

Resistance, arc length, and several other things can be determined by the machine, and the adaptive arc force accommodates this accordingly as changes occur. This much I know is possible. Again, Duncan can explain a little further, but I am guessing it might have something tied to that and the voltage adapts as well. Then again, I could be entirely wrong.

[wruehl]

Hi Mark, At my "normal" job we have developed one of the most sophisticated aircraft power systems ever made, commercial or military. I agree that certain characteristics can be determined in a live arc, however I believe that too many variables exist for the machine to determine the alloy and flux of a 12" piece of material when so many elements of the arc are not fixed. Like arc length, proximity to ground, resistance of ground, new rod vs. nearly spent nub, humidity of the rod, etc. We have developed very sophisticated algorithms to detect arc faults and extinguish them automatically and this is on a system that probably retails for close to 1mil. My point being that it seems unlikely the welder can do that, if I'm wrong (has happened, way more than I'd like to admit) I'd love to know how its done on such a low price point.

[Haywire]

Duncan.... wherefore art thou oh knowledgeable seer of the welder electronics?

Ian

[performance]

Inverters, with arc force control sense voltage drop as the arc length decreases and increase amps accordingly. Hot start also boosts voltage/amps to help starts until the unit stabilizes.

[wruehl]

Inverters, with arc force control sense voltage drop as the arc length decreases and increase amps accordingly. Hot start also boosts voltage/amps to help starts until the unit stabilizes.

Yes, that part makes perfect sense, its the "rod type detect" that I think is unlikely. Especially when the system is dynamically balancing the other parameters. The most simplistic solution would be to split the difference on the voltage to establish a happy medium. (Pure conjecture on my part, just being pragmatic). We use inverters all over the aircraft to make all sorts of different flavor power.


Actually having looked at your words more closely isn't arc force purely a function of voltage? More arc force = More voltage? And arc length is what is controlled by modulation of arc current? Or do I have that relationship wrong?

[geezer]

As a point of interest on the issue, there are two kinds of rods, some that work best at around 25 volts+/- and some that work best at 27 +/-volts, 6010 and 7018 work best above 25 volts the rest at 25 volts or less. This information can be verified by studying the material data sheets for different rods and their optimim depostion rates.

The 6010 port obviously has a higher voltage to make that rod work right, How they rework both voltage demands it into a single port is duable if you raise the mean voltage start point of the normal port so it has more than 25 volts and will work 6010. There are no free lunches in life, so I expect a compromise is made some where, however I leave such things to younger and smarter people than me. Of course working voltage can change when you lengthen or shorten your arc length while welding so I wouldn't sweat the whole thing, if anything I expect to see an improvement on burning 7018 on the new port and 6010 being able to fire up as well.

Interesting stuff I am learning new things everyday

[Haywire]

I'll just be happy to get my welder Wednesday so I can start burning myself with spatter. So much more efficient than freshly extinguished match heads.

Ian

[Scooter]

I got to use the new PA200 without the 6010 port today, the thing ran 6010 great no problems at all, I even stuffed it a few times deep into the puddle to see what would happen and it just kept going. I then ran about 5 lbs of 1/8th 7018, old stuff that has been around about 5 years and never in a heater. What works for me is to lay the rod over the vise and heat the bottom half of the rod with a torch to get it dry then it runs fine for me? But the little welder was amazing it ran the 7018 way better than my thunderbolt (old with a dc rectifier attachment). The 7018 restarted very easy with just a little tap on the work piece. I am impressed with the welder. Mark, no need to get me a welder with the 6010 port, I'm good.
Thanks Scooter

[Scooter]

I thought I would try to post some pictures. I welded up the base plate for my press brake and built up my skid shoes for the tractor that were really getting thin.

[geezer]

I got to use the new PA200 without the 6010 port today, the thing ran 6010 great no problems at all, I even stuffed it a few times deep into the puddle to see what would happen and it just kept going. I then ran about 5 lbs of 1/8th 7018, old stuff that has been around about 5 years and never in a heater. What works for me is to lay the rod over the vise and heat the bottom half of the rod with a torch to get it dry then it runs fine for me? But the little welder was amazing it ran the 7018 way better than my thunderbolt (old with a dc rectifier attachment). The 7018 restarted very easy with just a little tap on the work piece. I am impressed with the welder. Mark, no need to get me a welder with the 6010 port, I'm good.
Thanks Scooter

Glad to hear you like it, I also had a DC rectifier setup for my thunderbolt built it my self out of some surplus diodes , worked pretty good but not near a good as the PA 200, I'm sure you will be a happy camper with the PA 200 I sure like mine.