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Thread: Tubular aluminum Pontoon boat frame TIG weld repair

  1. #1
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    Default Tubular aluminum Pontoon boat frame TIG weld repair

    A customer brought in a broken aluminum pontoon boat frame for me to weld repair. The tubing was probably about 1" diameter and maybe about .065" (1/16") wall thickness.

    A side "arm" had a broken weld for unknown reason (possibly abuse) by the previous owner. However, the way it was manufactured (with the tube ends "pinched") also left the joint less rigid than it could have been. The owner who brought it to me said they had just bought it and got it for pretty cheap because of the damage. Here is what the broken joint looked like initially. It was definitely originally TIG welded:
    Attachment 1781

    I further prepped it by carbide burring out the crack a little bit, and using an aluminum oxide impregnated nylon bristle cup brush (good at conforming into crevices) to clean out all the remaining old finish. I also solvent cleaned it with some good (very strong) spray solvent that also very quickly evaporates.

    There was also an area along the outer edge of a bent that had a crack which we figured must have been there from the original manufacture (the tubing might have been bent a little too much / too aggressively?) I can't figure how else it could have failed like this:
    Attachment 1780

    I figure this frame was probably if not 6061, an aluminum allow with primarily magnesium in it (5xxx series aluminum) as either are popular in marine applications. I used 5356 filler rod (aluminum with about 5% Mg) because it would give a nice, strong and also ductile weld in either scenario.

    After preparing the surfaces, I danced an A/C TIG arc with light current (minimal to get a stable arc) over the weld joints, to ensure the solvents were completely evaporated and also to etch the surfaces clean. Then I TIG welded them using a footpedal and 3/32" tungsten (blunted end prep), #6 cup, 12 cfh argon gas flow. I did do a couple things differently than I usually do to try and get a different weld "look":
    1. I used a higher than usual EP of about 35%EP, I selected it thinking it was about as high as I figure I could get away with without melting the tungsten tip (for the 2% lanthanated electrode.)
    2. I used probably a little less stickout, and maybe a little more arc lengh than usual
    3. I held the filler rod closer to the joint when not filling it, which may help keep the tip from oxidizing
    The result is a really nice, clean weld beads with a "smooth" and shiny look.

    Even though I did not go to great effort to weld in a comfortable position (due the large, awkward frame, I had the torch probably about 2 feet away from me and was hard to even see the puddle at times) and I did not keep an ideal torch angle all the time. But despite all that, I got really nice "wet", clean looking puddles. Fun stuff! I didn't go out of my way to smooth out the weld or anything, and there were some spots were I was not holding not the best torch angle.
    Attachment 1778

    The tubing joints were somewhat "pinched" and welded together rather than properly "bellmouthed", probably because it saved production time by the factory, although it did make the joint less rigid as a result.

    So in addition to building the material up a bit on the side where it cracked, I also built up the back side with some extra material to stiffen and reinforce the overall joint. Although it is kind of a weave pattern, I just freehanded this one I didn't "walk the cup". I could have smoothed it out, but I was having fun with the wide, shiny weld beads.
    Attachment 1779

    Here is an overall shot of what the pontoon boat frame looked like when they were assembling it back together:
    Attachment 1777
    Last edited by jakeru; 04-26-2011 at 04:03 AM.
    '13 Everlast 255EXT
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  2. #2

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    Picture 4 has a very pretty and smooth bead. Good Job! Its looks nice.
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  3. Default

    A word of caution using spray solvents in a can. I don't remember the whole story but I believe it was carb cleaner, that didn't fully evaporate off, when mixed with argon produced a DEADLY gas.

    I hope someone can dig up the thread
    Charlie

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  4. #4

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    are you referring to chlorinated brake cleaner that releases phosgene gas when heated? just about nothing reacts with argon the brake cleaner thread is stickied in the general welding Qs section.


    looks nice, jakeru! how'd that 5356 run? I've found the few times I've used it that the puddle solidifies a lot faster than 4043.
    Last edited by ogorir; 06-14-2011 at 01:50 PM.
    McGuire Irvine
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  5. #5
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    ogorir, the 5356 ran great, and you can see I had great argon shielding and weld preparation on this. Not a spec of oxide in the puddle. I find 5356 gives good strength and ductility on a variety of parent metals. I use it probably more often than I do 4043.

    jtybt - I am aware that anything with Trichloroethylene, and possibly other chlorinated components (such as Chlorinated Brake Parts cleaner) should be avoided for welding preparation due to phosgene gas formation hazard:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichloroethylene

    I used "welders safety degreaser - safety solvent". Here is a picture of the can / label:

    As I purchased it from a welding supplier, and am using it as it is label seems to intend (for welding preparation), I thought it would be OK and safe, but the chlorinated component in the label did give me some concern from the get go on this. I found its wikipedia link on the active ingredient "methylene chloride", (AKA "dichloromethane"):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichloromethane
    ...and although didn't see anything particularly bad about it in there (except to not breathe it, and keep it off my hands), now I want to track down the MSDS and know all the dirt on this stuff. I noticed it says "do not spray through electric arc" on the label, which although I'm not doing exactly, seems like another red flag.

    Can anyone help me track down the MSDS for this product?
    Last edited by jakeru; 06-14-2011 at 09:44 PM.
    '13 Everlast 255EXT
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  6. Default

    I don't know what product contained what ingredient that was harmful. I was just warned about some things I was using to clean metal. Alcohol was one that was recommended. I also have lacquer thinner and acetone for cleaning. I no longer use carb or brake cleaner as those were what I was warned about.
    Charlie

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  7. #7

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    Carb cleaner is fo-sho flamable!!! I wonder if it has something to do with welding near the can, or leaving the can on top of or near what is being welded, and the heat causes the can to explode?
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  8. Default

    No, it wasn't about the flamability of the cleaner/solvents. They're pretty much all in that category. It had to do with heating the un-vaporized solvent during welding and creating a DEADLY gas. I looked/searched for a thread or any info in the forum but didn't come up with anything.
    Charlie

    Everlast 225 LX
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  9. Default

    Found this passage in a search about dangerous gases in welding...


    SOLVENTS
    • Welding through or near some (chlorinated) solvents can produce phosgene, a poisonous
    gas. The gas can cause fluid in the lungs. You may not notice the problem until hours after
    you quit welding. But fluid in your lungs can kill you
    Charlie

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  10. #10
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    Link to the brake cleaner thread: http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...r-Phosgene-Gas

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  11. Default

    YUP!! That's the one!!!!
    Charlie

    Everlast 225 LX
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    HF 130 TIG/90 ARC
    HF 90 fluxcore

    ATX MIG (don't ask)

  12. #12

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    interesting that the 'safety solvent' is methlyene chloride (aka the active ingredient in paint stripper). I always thought it was caustic, but I just looked up and there's ammonium hydroxide in pain stripper also which I suspect is what burns when you get it on you.

    I wonder if that solvent you have will strip paint? what'd you pay for a can?
    McGuire Irvine
    Crow Motor Co.

    Lincoln powermig 225 (work)

  13. Default

    That paint stripper is powerful stuff. I used it to clean the paint off the deck of my boat...and it ate the fiberglass resin right out of the deck. I had fiberglass filaments blowing in the breeze.
    Charlie

    Everlast 225 LX
    Everlast PP 50

    HF 130 TIG/90 ARC
    HF 90 fluxcore

    ATX MIG (don't ask)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogorir View Post
    interesting that the 'safety solvent' is methlyene chloride (aka the active ingredient in paint stripper). I always thought it was caustic, but I just looked up and there's ammonium hydroxide in pain stripper also which I suspect is what burns when you get it on you.

    I wonder if that solvent you have will strip paint? what'd you pay for a can?
    I've noticed it wrinkles the paint (maybe even powdercoat) right off of some painted/finished aluminum wheels if I get some of it that sits on a painted area, even just for a few seconds. And, I'm not talking about ameteur-applied finishes either, I am talking about OEM factory-applied (Mercedes, BMW, etc) wheel finishes, that you think would be really durable! So, at least with some kinds of paints/finishes, it seems to be a surprisingly effective paint remover.

    Here is the source: $6.50 / 24 oz can.
    https://weldingsupply.securesites.co...EF:OR:386-5140
    Last edited by jakeru; 06-15-2011 at 11:18 AM.
    '13 Everlast 255EXT
    '07 Everlast Super200P

  15. #15

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    yeah... I might have to buy a few of those and try 'em out. a gallon of aircraft remover is up around 38 bucks now. It helps that it's available from weldingsupply.com, whom I like a lot.
    McGuire Irvine
    Crow Motor Co.

    Lincoln powermig 225 (work)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeru View Post
    ...it says "do not spray through electric arc" on the label...
    Can anyone help me track down the MSDS for this product?
    Jake, I thought that would be an easy find, but I didn't see any sheets after a fairly extensive google search. That strikes me as odd- it can't be the first time anyone has looked for it.

    This website
    http://www.manta.com/c/mm7n3kn/kci-inc
    says the company is private, and does not have a website of its own (another oddity). But it does list a phone number.

    Is it possible the "do not spray through the arc" warning is due to high electrical conductivity of the product? I've used some wasp / hornet sprays that are v-e-r-y careful to explain about using the stuff on or near electrical equipment, due to the risk of shock.
    Last edited by DaveO; 06-15-2011 at 04:09 PM.
    DaveO
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