Get the biggest tank you can....you won't be sorry.

[Steve]

Before I ordered my Powertig 250EX, I had bought from a private party a 125 cubic foot argon tank. It was full and a good deal at $100. 125 cubic foot tanks look kind of big but........it isn't. I highly recommend that if you get a tig welder and do lots of welding, get yourself the 250 cubic foot tanks or larger if available. The 125 lasted me about 1 week and so I checked into trading in the 125 for a 250. The gas dealer said no problem. I just have to pay $125 plus give them my old 125 and the 250 is mine full of argon. Not too bad.

The rumor is that you cannot buy 250 cubic foot tanks and larger any more. Not true. You can buy tanks if they are available from a private owner or a gas dealer that still sells them.
The gas dealers prefer that you lease the tanks as they make some pretty good money off the leases. But if your dealer is a decent dealer, they will sell you a larger tank.

I had to modify my welding cart to hold the 250 but that was easy. What I do like is I get twice the gas at a cheaper rate than if I bought two 125's and had them filled. Next to the 125 I have for the mig (75/25), the 250 looks huge.

So the moral of the story here is get the largest tank you can. As big as a 125 is, it goes quickly when you are welding almost every day. Better to have a 250 or larger.

[zoama]

How much does it cost to get the 250 filled ?

[Jason]

How much welding are you doing during the week? I have a 100 cfm bottle of whatever it is and at first I had my gas too high and burned through it pretty fast. Now it lasts me a little while before I go through the bottle.

[Steve]

How much does it cost to get the 250 filled ?

Depends on where you get it filled (actually switched out). My cost is $68.00 for a 250 cubic foot tank of argon from my LWS. My 125 cubic foot tank cost me $40 to fill. For $28 more, I get twice the gas with my 250 so it is a no brainer plus I don't have the rental fee to pay as I own the tank. So I save $13 every other fill up which adds up after a while. I was going through a tank every other week with the 125 and now it is once a month with the 250. I was using the argon for my Hobart Handler 210 with spool gun to weld aluminum. Now that I have the Powertig 250EX, that is my main aluminum machine now. I was also using the Cobra 2000 torch for some thin steel welding but now the Powertig 250 is the machine for that too. So my argon use has exploded. Still cheaper though than buying acetylene and oxygen.

[Steve]

How much welding are you doing during the week? I have a 100 cfm bottle of whatever it is and at first I had my gas too high and burned through it pretty fast. Now it lasts me a little while before I go through the bottle.

I weld almost every day with about an hour or two of welding time, sometimes more depending on demand. I found a little niche market for a product I make that caters to a certain market and that product requires welding.

[zoama]

Depends on where you get it filled (actually switched out). My cost is $68.00 for a 250 cubic foot tank of argon from my LWS. My 125 cubic foot tank cost me $40 to fill. For $28 more, I get twice the gas with my 250 so it is a no brainer plus I don't have the rental fee to pay as I own the tank. So I save $13 every other fill up which adds up after a while. I was going through a tank every other week with the 125 and now it is once a month with the 250. I was using the argon for my Hobart Handler 210 with spool gun to weld aluminum. Now that I have the Powertig 250EX, that is my main aluminum machine now. I was also using the Cobra 2000 torch for some thin steel welding but now the Powertig 250 is the machine for that too. So my argon use has exploded. Still cheaper though than buying acetylene and oxygen.

Checkout national welders prices http://www.nwsco.com/cgi-bin/nw/WSer...html?id=614188 I feel like I'm getting ripped off.

[Steve]

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention that the larger tanks like a 350 cubic footer weighs in at 189 lbs. full. So if you cant haul that much weight around, then maybe a 150 cubic footer may be the way to go as the 150's weigh in at around 74 lbs. And you will have to make sure your welding cart can handle the extra weight. The larger tanks are huge, so plan accordingly.

[Dne007]

I'm already learning this about the argon going quickly! I probably wasted alot today, but maybe as time goes by I'll be a little more aware of my gas setting. But this bottle is pretty heavy for me, and a bottle larger than this one would really get my attention! My C25 bottle on the larger mig~(it's an fat short aluminum bottle; can't see it behind my welding helmet box) I need to get a larger bottle for that machine too! The welding shop is going to love me when I see them next time! Thanks for this thread! ; )
dne'

[Jason]

Aww my bottle is actually a 150.. Is this product you make too secret to share? I like to see others people work and learn from it what I can.

[DaveO]

Is this product you make too secret to share?

That same question entered my mind: I can see Steve being very proprietary about his niche market, since others could pick up on his idea and run with it, thereby crowding him out of the market. On the other hand, the members of this board are pretty geographically separated so (again depending on the idea) sharing it selectively here would not automatically be a threat to his market share >and< might trigger some useful ideas that expand it and make it better. So I would be interested to know what the product is too- as Jason says, to learn whatever I can.

[Steve]

That same question entered my mind: I can see Steve being very proprietary about his niche market, since others could pick up on his idea and run with it, thereby crowding him out of the market. On the other hand, the members of this board are pretty geographically separated so (again depending on the idea) sharing it selectively here would not automatically be a threat to his market share >and< might trigger some useful ideas that expand it and make it better. So I would be interested to know what the product is too- as Jason says, to learn whatever I can.

Sorry guys. With the advent of E-bay and other methods of marketing, it is no longer a regional situation. (No I'm not on E-bay selling it!) Not only that, but what I make requires a mill and a lathe to make and parts need to be welded together. Lets just say it is in the automotive field and it is a product that no longer is available from the manufacturers.

There are tons of other things that need to be made and or can be made better than what it commercially available. I have a friend who makes garden tools that are way better than what is available. He sells them at local home shows and always sells out. There are literally tons of things that can be made better. The hard part is figuring out what people want and how to make it better.

You guys are smart enough to figure it out. It just takes some effort!

[DaveO]

Alright, I'm sure I can figure this out, let's see... mill, lathe, TIG welding, automotive... it can only be
~ "baby on board" signs, or
~ those classy playboy air fresheners, or
~ Skoal-branded dip cup holders, or
~ mud flap girl silhouettes

Did I get it?

[redbeard]

Alright, I'm sure I can figure this out, let's see... mill, lathe, TIG welding, automotive... it can only be
~ "baby on board" signs, or
~ those classy playboy air fresheners, or
~ Skoal-branded dip cup holders, or
~ mud flap girl silhouettes

Did I get it?

Naw, I bet it's something high-brow like a bobblehead Elvis.

[Jason]

Sorry guys. With the advent of E-bay and other methods of marketing, it is no longer a regional situation. (No I'm not on E-bay selling it!) Not only that, but what I make requires a mill and a lathe to make and parts need to be welded together. Lets just say it is in the automotive field and it is a product that no longer is available from the manufacturers.

There are tons of other things that need to be made and or can be made better than what it commercially available. I have a friend who makes garden tools that are way better than what is available. He sells them at local home shows and always sells out. There are literally tons of things that can be made better. The hard part is figuring out what people want and how to make it better.

You guys are smart enough to figure it out. It just takes some effort!

So if your worried about someone ripping off your idea, I would assume that you are not currently selling these items? If that is something you are extremely worried about, why not get a patent. Also you mentioned that "you can no longer get these from the manufacturers" so does that mean you took the idea from them and are worried about us taking it from you? Also telling us here what it is is no different than if we were potential buyers but in the end I guess it is your choice.

[Steve]

So if your worried about someone ripping off your idea, I would assume that you are not currently selling these items? If that is something you are extremely worried about, why not get a patent. Also you mentioned that "you can no longer get these from the manufacturers" so does that mean you took the idea from them and are worried about us taking it from you? Also telling us here what it is is no different than if we were potential buyers but in the end I guess it is your choice.

No I'm not worried. I just know that there are a lot of folks on this site that have the ability to make what I am making and it was my idea to supply a demand and it was a good one. I am making money by doing what I like to do. Although the "thing" I am making is no longer being made by the original manufacturer or manufacturers, it is being made by others now. My idea was to improve on what was available and it now is being sold to certain markets in a certain way. I'll say again that anyone here could do it with the right equipment, but it was my idea to do it and improve it so that is all I am going to say on the matter.

I will say this about the larger tanks. They are saving me a lot of gasoline as it has cut down on my driving back and forth to the LWS. I highly recommend that if you can handle the larger tanks....they weigh 100 lbs more than the smaller tanks on average, and won't fit very good in the back of your car. But the larger tanks are way better overall. Lifting a tank that weighs 150 to 180 lbs on to a cart can be a real workout.

I have another 125 cubic foot argon tank that I want to exchange at the LWS. I was there yesterday. They said I might even want to go with a 330 cubic foot tank. Even larger than my big one I have now. Their charge was quoted as $85 to upgrade to the larger tank and $85 to fill. It weighs in at almost 190 lbs. .

[Trip59]

At what point does it need to become stationary? Granted, there's a 'duh' factor built in, too big to mount to a cart safely... what I mean is, what size would you guys think about chaining it to a wall versus on a cart?

Is there any downside to a long hose and some sort of quick connect? I ask because where I weld and where the tank would mount is on the other side of the shop from where it's practical to store my welding carts.

Unless Tractor Supply DOES have argon at my local store (I don't think they do, I think it's all 25/75) then I'm like an hour out using my wife's Civic to pick up gas, as I doubt a 250 would be too easy to move on my RoadKing. Basically, I'll either go small and frequent or huge and borrow a friend's truck every once in a while. Trying to decide what to do. If a hose and quick connect works great, that might make more sense, no?

[Steve]

At what point does it need to become stationary? Granted, there's a 'duh' factor built in, too big to mount to a cart safely... what I mean is, what size would you guys think about chaining it to a wall versus on a cart?

Is there any downside to a long hose and some sort of quick connect? I ask because where I weld and where the tank would mount is on the other side of the shop from where it's practical to store my welding carts.

Unless Tractor Supply DOES have argon at my local store (I don't think they do, I think it's all 25/75) then I'm like an hour out using my wife's Civic to pick up gas, as I doubt a 250 would be too easy to move on my RoadKing. Basically, I'll either go small and frequent or huge and borrow a friend's truck every once in a while. Trying to decide what to do. If a hose and quick connect works great, that might make more sense, no?

Big bottles require a big cart. It depends on the size of the wheels and the design of the cart as to what size bottle can be safely used mobile wise. I planned ahead in case I wanted or needed to go to a larger size tank. The mod to my cart was easy to do. The 4 wheels each can handle up to 350 lbs. for a total of 1400 lbs. so with all my welders,cables and tanks on the cart the total weight is around 450 lbs. which has plenty of safety margin. My cart is 2 and a half feet wide at the wheels so it is plenty stable. The larger wheels roll over obstacles easily. I see no problem with rolling the 350 tank on the cart. The only problem I see is when I get older and the 350 or even the 250 gets to be too much to lift onto the cart. Lifting 170 lbs. of dead weight is not a problem right now, but in 20 or 30 years from now, it might be.

The other big thing is transporting the big bottles. The 125's fit perfect in the back of my car. The 250 I have to move my front passenger seat down and have the bottle hang into the front seat. The 350 is going to be a monster. It is heavy and it is big. But, it will save me tons of gasoline and cheaper to fill volume wise so it is worth the hassle to haul it back and forth from the LWS. $85 for a complete fill for three times the gas at $45 in my 125 is a no brainer. I will save $50 on gas for the 350 over the cost of filling the 125 three times. like getting a third 125 free!

Quick connect fittings I have heard may leak as they are less secure as a screw on fitting. Just something I have read somewhere else. May or may not be valid. I have not seen very many quick connect fittings for shielding gas so there must be a reason why they don't offer them. Automotive type quick connects always leak on me. The quick connect on my Powertig 250EX seems to leak a little. The direct connect on my Hobart holds the pressure of the argon / co2 forever while the quick connect on my Powertig loses pressure after a few hours. I have a direct connect barb from the regulator to the back of the machine and of course the quick connect at the front. Could be an internal leak or a leak right at the connector. Not sure. The leak is not enough to affect the weld so I just let it go.

[DaveO]

The 125's fit perfect in the back of my car... {snip}... it is worth the hassle to haul it back and forth from the LWS.

It's been a while since I've looked into this (and I will need to look into it in the near future)- but don't LWSs deliver? Or do people find it too much hassle: you have to be there to meet the guy, empty bottle has to be unrigged and ready to swap, heavy truck in your driveway, dropping bottles off the back making a ding in your driveway, etc?

[Steve]

It's been a while since I've looked into this (and I will need to look into it in the near future)- but don't LWSs deliver? Or do people find it too much hassle: you have to be there to meet the guy, empty bottle has to be unrigged and ready to swap, heavy truck in your driveway, dropping bottles off the back making a ding in your driveway, etc?

They charge a delivery charge which would kill the economics of getting a larger tank. I was told that a delivery charge of $62 for a tank which I will not pay. I'm 26 miles from my LWS. And not all LWS have delivery available when you need it. Delivery is great if you have several tanks that need refill but for one or two tanks, it just does not make economic sense.

[DaveO]

Ouch! $62 does change the math. I figured the LWS would have a route truck that covers the southwest corner of town on Tuesdays, or something, and that a more nominal fee would apply. $62 sounds almost like a one-off delivery charge to send a truck out to you only, maybe? I'll have to keep that in mind.