Gas vs flux core

[MigPlazArc]

I was wondering how much better gas MIG is vs flux core. Also, I was wondering what the overall price difference is between the two. I can get solid core for $29.99 or flux core for $79.99 (10lb).

[parkour]

Gas will cost more at the outset due to increased machine cost and cost of the gas bottle and regulator, and has the ongoing cost of gas. Flux will cost less at first due to reduced machine cost, but as you can see the wire costs almost three times as much.

The gas setup will require you to drag the bottle around where the flux would not. It is difficult to use gas outside, as any wind will blow the gas away. Flux can be used in the wind. Flux spatters more than gas. Flux might also tend to produce a poorer looking weld, but that may be highly dependent on the operator skill. You will typically be able to weld thinner metal with gas than with flux. With a gas machine you will more readily be able to weld metals like aluminum and stainless. Such may also be possible with flux, but it's very common with gas. With gas you have a larger selection of wire compositions and sizes to chose from.

A gas machine is inherently capable of running with flux wire. A flux machine cannot run gas wire, at least not without significant reconfiguration. A gas machine would merely need to have the output polarity changed, and gas shut off. There is also dual shield wire which is flux wire that uses gas as well.

[MigPlazArc]

Gas will cost more at the outset due to increased machine cost and cost of the gas bottle and regulator, and has the ongoing cost of gas. Flux will cost less at first due to reduced machine cost, but as you can see the wire costs almost three times as much.

The gas setup will require you to drag the bottle around where the flux would not. It is difficult to use gas outside, as any wind will blow the gas away. Flux can be used in the wind. Flux spatters more than gas. Flux might also tend to produce a poorer looking weld, but that may be highly dependent on the operator skill. You will typically be able to weld thinner metal with gas than with flux. With a gas machine you will more readily be able to weld metals like aluminum and stainless. Such may also be possible with flux, but it's very common with gas. With gas you have a larger selection of wire compositions and sizes to chose from.

A gas machine is inherently capable of running with flux wire. A flux machine cannot run gas wire, at least not without significant reconfiguration. A gas machine would merely need to have the output polarity changed, and gas shut off. There is also dual shield wire which is flux wire that uses gas as well.

Okay thanks. But I was wondering after you buy all the equipment what will cost more (gas and solid core or just flux core)?

[Trip59]

Kind of tricky, like which is better, a car or a pickup. Each has it's own benefits, and drawbacks. I have my wire-feed set up to run either (added the gas reg/solenoid) and have both kinds of wire in stock. The small ga steel architectural project I'm starting will be MIG, done inside the door of the garage. Custom cow-catcher type brush guard I welded up for a friend's pickup, flux core, out in the driveway in all nature's glory.

I let the job dictate which I used, based on the properties of each. I can do cleaner, finer welds with .024 solid and C25, but I can do things out in the weather with the flux core and crank it up.

To expand, I'm keeping the MIG after I get the TIG, because there will be some things the MIG would be better for, just as I came to Everlast because a lot of near priced machines I saw lacked stick capability, and that would have it's place too.

More to your question, I've found that gas usage varies, hard to put a direct number to it. The price of wire you quoted seems a bit odd from the last time I purchased, are they the same brand and size? I don't recall so far a difference in price.

[DaveO]

MigPlazArc asked about the intial cost of ownership; his questions about wire prices made me wonder about operating costs. I looked up wirefeed settings for different thicknesses of base metal on the Everlast welding calculators, and found that flux core wirespeed settings are lower than those of solid MIG wire. Here's my question: are those wirespeed settings lower because .035 flux core wire has less filler metal than .035 solid MIG wire, and does a flux core weld therefore require a greater amount of wire to create the same linear weld length as a MIG weld? That would affect operations costs.

But as Trip said, with the right machine the application would dictate the process used.

[Trip59]

That's an interesting point DaveO, and it makes sense. I'm curious about the 'official' answer. Though the full question would then be, does the cost of shielding gas plus the lesser inches of solid core equate to the price of the same requirement (inches of weld) of flux core.

Wow, this is a pretty darn complicated question... also have to factor in flow rate of the gas, what is that, like 5 variables to calculate?

[DaveO]

A handful of known and know-able factors, yes, but the cleanup required for FCAW- removing spatter and flux- may throw the equation back in favor of MIG.

Up until recently I had always thought of FCAW as a kind of kinda sorta wannabe thing that Harbor Freight offered as a "this is the best we can do" kind of deal. Now I understand it has its place, especially for adverse field conditions.

[MigPlazArc]

Kind of tricky, like which is better, a car or a pickup. Each has it's own benefits, and drawbacks. I have my wire-feed set up to run either (added the gas reg/solenoid) and have both kinds of wire in stock. The small ga steel architectural project I'm starting will be MIG, done inside the door of the garage. Custom cow-catcher type brush guard I welded up for a friend's pickup, flux core, out in the driveway in all nature's glory.

I let the job dictate which I used, based on the properties of each. I can do cleaner, finer welds with .024 solid and C25, but I can do things out in the weather with the flux core and crank it up.

To expand, I'm keeping the MIG after I get the TIG, because there will be some things the MIG would be better for, just as I came to Everlast because a lot of near priced machines I saw lacked stick capability, and that would have it's place too.

More to your question, I've found that gas usage varies, hard to put a direct number to it. The price of wire you quoted seems a bit odd from the last time I purchased, are they the same brand and size? I don't recall so far a difference in price.

Yes, they were both Hobart at Theisen's and .035.

[MigPlazArc]

That's an interesting point DaveO, and it makes sense. I'm curious about the 'official' answer. Though the full question would then be, does the cost of shielding gas plus the lesser inches of solid core equate to the price of the same requirement (inches of weld) of flux core.

Wow, this is a pretty darn complicated question... also have to factor in flow rate of the gas, what is that, like 5 variables to calculate?

Ja... I was wondering if anybody would know...But you know lol

[jerky]

A handful of known and know-able factors, yes, but the cleanup required for FCAW- removing spatter and flux- may throw the equation back in favor of MIG.

Up until recently I had always thought of FCAW as a kind of kinda sorta wannabe thing that Harbor Freight offered as a "this is the best we can do" kind of deal. Now I understand it has its place, especially for adverse field conditions.

usually if settings are good, spatter can be kept to a minimum, and the slag usually falls off on its own, or with very little effort. MigPlazArc's inital question is a little vauge as the start up cost all depends on what your going to be welding. most companys turn to dualshield flux core for production costs as you can get a much bigger puddle and only do one pass instead of say three. but really it all boils down to what your gonna be welding and if going the flux core route is all worth it. i know thats not an awnser, and it prolly wont help

[zoama]

flux core for $79.99 (10lb).

You can get two 10lb rolles of HTP for that plus $10.95 shipping http://www.ebay.com/itm/10lb-035-Flu...item20b701373c both rolls will ship for $10.95, but you have to wait for an invoice with corrected shipping.

[bobwills]

Well your initial question was what is cheaper machines aside. And no one really answered so i thought i might try to find something on the internet cause i was curious. But basicly if you are gonna be just wanting to be able to weld cheep as possible mig will prolly be your cheepest route. But it depends on how much you weld too. If you use like it just every once in a while and only go through 10 lbs a year your cheepest route will be flux core. Now if you can justify the monthly or yearly fee of a bottle rental then mig will be the cheepest. For many reasons. 1. migs lbs per what is deposited is more than what flux core is. Flux core takes something like 15% more wire for the exact same weld. 2. for good flux wire it is almost triple solid wire price. You can get cheaper but ive herd theres no comparison. And gas isnt used up that fast. Go through like 2.5 roles of 10lbs of solid wire to 1 bottle that is 125cf. The bottle is like $45 maybe on average i have read. So basicly if you use enough wire a year it is much cheaper. I dont know rental fee for a year but im sure its not too outrageous. Found all this on the web so not sure what all is true lol. But still gives you an idea. Only thing that aint sure about is the lbs of wire to the cylinder size but it sounds about right maybe. Hope it helps

[performance]

As Gabe said, in other words, you have to look at the transfer efficiencies. MIG has a higher rate of transfer efficiency. Lower cost per pound of wire, plus a higher transfer rate, equals a much lower operational cost for wire. Gas, consumption is highly variable, and should be adjusted for location. I use a 300 size cylinder. I get mine filled for 65.00 or so. It'll last a 40lb roll and a half or so (I tend to use a higher flow rate, at 25 or so but the clean up is almost nil). Lease is about 65-70.00 a year per cylinder. Size doesn't make much of a difference around here on the yearly fee.

[MigPlazArc]

Well your initial question was what is cheaper machines aside. And no one really answered so i thought i might try to find something on the internet cause i was curious. But basicly if you are gonna be just wanting to be able to weld cheep as possible mig will prolly be your cheepest route. But it depends on how much you weld too. If you use like it just every once in a while and only go through 10 lbs a year your cheepest route will be flux core. Now if you can justify the monthly or yearly fee of a bottle rental then mig will be the cheepest. For many reasons. 1. migs lbs per what is deposited is more than what flux core is. Flux core takes something like 15% more wire for the exact same weld. 2. for good flux wire it is almost triple solid wire price. You can get cheaper but ive herd theres no comparison. And gas isnt used up that fast. Go through like 2.5 roles of 10lbs of solid wire to 1 bottle that is 125cf. The bottle is like $45 maybe on average i have read. So basicly if you use enough wire a year it is much cheaper. I dont know rental fee for a year but im sure its not too outrageous. Found all this on the web so not sure what all is true lol. But still gives you an idea. Only thing that aint sure about is the lbs of wire to the cylinder size but it sounds about right maybe. Hope it helps

Ja It sounds like it could be right... If I was to mainly switch to gas I would probably buy a tank and have it refilled.

[MigPlazArc]

As Gabe said, in other words, you have to look at the transfer efficiencies. MIG has a higher rate of transfer efficiency. Lower cost per pound of wire, plus a higher transfer rate, equals a much lower operational cost for wire. Gas, consumption is highly variable, and should be adjusted for location. I use a 300 size cylinder. I get mine filled for 65.00 or so. It'll last a 40lb roll and a half or so (I tend to use a higher flow rate, at 25 or so but the clean up is almost nil). Lease is about 65-70.00 a year per cylinder. Size doesn't make much of a difference around here on the yearly fee.

Thanks everybody... I will decide when I save up enough to buy the I MIG 200

[Steve]

There are reasons why to use flux core and reasons why to use mig/gas welding.

Flux core is excellent for windy conditions. It is good for dirty metal. It is good for portability as you need no tanks. Flux core has some excellent penetration properties.

Flux core is bad if you want less splatter and clean up. Flux core is bad if you want to do thin sheet metal.

Mig / Gas welding is good for thin sheet metal. Mig welding is good for clean welds. Mig welding is just about on par with flux core as far as costs go. Initially mig costs more but if you do a lot of welding on new metal, then mig is the way to go. Less clean up time and better looking welds.

Any time I weld something with new metal, it is always mig. If I am fixing some old metal or outside in the wind, it is then flux core.

There are uses for flux core and there are uses for mig. I would go with a machine that can do both. That will give you the flexibility you need for any type of welding.

[MigPlazArc]

There are reasons why to use flux core and reasons why to use mig/gas welding.

Flux core is excellent for windy conditions. It is good for dirty metal. It is good for portability as you need no tanks. Flux core has some excellent penetration properties.

Flux core is bad if you want less splatter and clean up. Flux core is bad if you want to do thin sheet metal.

Mig / Gas welding is good for thin sheet metal. Mig welding is good for clean welds. Mig welding is just about on par with flux core as far as costs go. Initially mig costs more but if you do a lot of welding on new metal, then mig is the way to go. Less clean up time and better looking welds.

Any time I weld something with new metal, it is always mig. If I am fixing some old metal or outside in the wind, it is then flux core.

There are uses for flux core and there are uses for mig. I would go with a machine that can do both. That will give you the flexibility you need for any type of welding.

Thanks for the input! I want the I MIG 200 which is capable of flux core welding.

[welderdude]

I almost always run solid wire because of the easy clean up, but have played around with flux core. Having ran some flux core wire through my mig, I realised that it is easy to set it too hot and end up with pin holes in the bead. That was running dcen btw. It also runs much hotter, but that is because the voltage across the arc is a few volts lower which allows more current to flow.