Back to Basics Super 200P

[mightyhammer]

Ok, admittedly, I apparently either got rusty or toasted something in my machine (super 200P). I used the snot out of it for plasma cutting when I scrapped an old Mack yarder and I am not sure, but I might have fried something internally. There are no lights on indicating a problem. I hooked up my tig torch the other day and I cant seem to get it dialed in for welding aluminum. I am welding 1/8 give or take, aluminum stock with 2% thoriated 3/32 tungsten, straight argon, elecrode negative, A/C current. Everything seems very erratic, when I use torch trigger on stable setting I weld a couple of inches and the amps go through the roof and blows out. I actually used up all my argon before I tried the pedal control.( I have a tendancy to get blinders on when confronted with a problem and used up all my gas trying to figure out why it wouldnt weld right with the torch control. Can someone lay on me "ALL" of the basic settings for welding aluminum with a super 200P, so I can see if I am crazy or not! Much appreciatd...COop

[DaveO]

Coop- Not sure if you have this or not, or if it will help:
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/do...pmaster1.2.pdf

This is a link to the manual for your machine. Does that provide enough settings until someone with specific knowledge of the 200p can respond? (Traffic on the forum goes way down during the day.)

[mightyhammer]

Thanks again for the help Dave. I think I got er figgered out. I have nothing else going on today, have to stay in bed, wifes orders. I have two bad knees(on top of many other ailments) and I really blew out my left one, swelled up like an old pigskin, only way it gets better is to get off of it for a day or so. I really need surgery, but not sure i want any more of those..... Anywho.... i got to archiving here and found a fella with similar problems with his 200P. Torch overheating..... Mine is doing all that he said and more.... after an inch or two weld sets all contaminated and then amps surge way up and everything overheats.....Makes sense now, I didn't realize that the primary wireing ran up through the air hose. I aint crazy after all! Halleluia! Amen...lol

[mightyhammer]

Are there any torch upgrades available from Everlast for the 200P's. I have alot of aluminum TIG welding to do and I don't like fooling around with trying to run around piecing things together on my own. Kind of a plug and play kind of fella these days due to my physical status. I am thinking of upgrading to a MTS 200s here soon, but might just see if I can find a good used Miller and no longer worry about the hassles. Coop

[performance]

We should be able to get you up and running fairly cheaply. We have some 17'v's that are pretty much plug and play for our newer units, but won't be much effort at all to convert to yours.

As far as the MTS...I can guarantee you you WON'T find anything as nice or comparable in the Miller...or one that welds as nice.

[mightyhammer]

I hear ya. I really like the sounds of that ma-chene, I guess I might be a little concerned that if I end up getting one, a month or two later Everlast will come out with a 250 or 300 MTS, and that would be a little more to my liking. The 200 would surely be nice, but I can work a welder pretty hard sometimes and like having a bit more than 200 amps max with 20% duty cycle. I will say that my 200P is the best and easiest stick welder i have ever used. I like the combo units and would really like one that mig welds as well. Most of my welding is either mig or tig, steel and alum. Is there any scuttlebut that there might be a MTS 250 or so in the works? I just would like to know, cuz I can wait if there is. What I am using now will suffice, especially if I can get a tougher TIG torch for my 200P. Coop

[mightyhammer]

I looked on the site, and the closest one I could find was a "wp17"? Is that the one? If so it seems a little under-rated to help much, I think I probably need something in the 200 amp range?Coop

[performance]

The torch you have is a lower quality version of the wp 17 we have online.

But if you didn't know, we have a 400 mts.

I am not sure if you are aware, but the MTS series are all DC.

The old 200P's weren't exactly using the same "amp" scale we use now. Compared to the new one, you'd find about 160 amps true output...from my understanding. The 200MTS puts out a lot more than you think.

[mightyhammer]

Dang, Guess my head must be swimming from looking at welders for the last week. I could have sworn that the 160 and 200 MTS were ac/dc. Thats why I didnt bring up the 400, cuz it was real clear that it was a dc machine only. Well, guess I will have to start thinking about getting a Power Pro 256, I really like having the ac option when welding aluminum.

[jakeru]

If you want a quick, easy solution to your Super200P's torch problem, get the chinese-made WP26 aircooled torch I mentioned that has an M16 threads on the machine end. Like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200A-WP-26-S...ht_3355wt_1150

And as for how to set the machine up for aluminum, it's easy after you resolve your overheating torch cable problem. Set the switch to AC operation. Set the AC Balance /cleaning knob all the way counter clockwise (spin the top to the left all the way.) That is called the 80% DCEN, 20% DCEP setting. Turn the pulsing switch off. Plug in the footpedal and probably turn the footpedal knob to give you a useful current range, I'd recommend somewhere between 50%-100%. (Knob somewhere between 12 o'clock, to all the way clockwise.) The panel peak current knob is ignored on the Super200P when the footpedal is plugged in, so it doesn't matter where its set. Set the downslope knob to zero (all the way counter clockwise) if you want the arc to stop as soon as you lift the pedal (I usually do.)

If you have a melting cable, stop welding the moment it starts overheating and contaminating your shielding gas. You will notice a degradation in the cleanliness of the weld puddle when this happens. Continuing to weld will not be pretty... Wait and let it cool. Pre-heating your work can help it get further before it overheats. Upgrade your torch, you won't believe the difference.

[mightyhammer]

Thanks Jake, I really dont remember having these troubles when I got the machine, I welded a good amount of aluminum and steel in 06-07, then changed jobs so I t got used primarily for cutting and stick welding. I guess 5 or so years aint bad for a Chinese machine! It still plasma cuts like a champ and if it holds up I wouldnt use another stick welder, man that machine can stick weld! : )

[mightyhammer]

I have to admit that I do have concerns about longevity. I am really looking for a machine that is going to last long enough for me to hand down to my boys, I'm only 42, so It has to be a very good quality machine. That is why i am slightly hesitant. You can buy a miller or lincoln from the fifties and it will more than likely weld like it did when new. I just dont see these everlast machines lasting more than 5 or so years, I mean I understand that a company likes to make money by selling product, but I'm just not sure yet.

[jakeru]

I guess 5 or so years aint bad for a Chinese machine!

I have to admit that I do have concerns about longevity. ... I just dont see these everlast machines lasting more than 5 or so years

Based on your comments above, I think your confidence in your machine can only be expected to dramatically increase after you address your overheated torch cable issue.

Contaminated shielding gas makes the arc go all funky. An arc going funky doesn't necessarily mean there is anything wrong with your machine itself (the metal box part of it, at least).

If you've really severely overheated your torch cable in the past, then it's possible that the hot, braided copper conductor inside of the cable melted a hole all the way through the hose around it, and left a pierced hole in the hose. Such a hole would then cause the shielding gas inside the hose to be contaminated even if the conductor weren't very hot. So previously thin metal you used to be able to weld without contamination, you may now experience contamination with when welding.

In case you didn't see the pics, here is what the inside of my cable looked like after I cut it apart. I can easily see the conductor melting through and piercing a hole, if I didn't catch it when I did and kept trying to weld with it like this for much longer:
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...=4899#post4899

Such an argon leak would cause weld contamination even when welding even relatively thin material at low power output. You would be able to see the hole if you stripped off that vinyl cover off your hose leads and gave the hose inside a good inspection.

By the way, that vinyl cover will also trap heat to some degree, and make the cables overheat more readily. IME, it reduces the duty cycle the aircooled cable is able to operate at somewhat. (The cover does neatly contain the torch switch conductors, and provide some protection.)

The fact that your machine is capable of putting out enough power and duty cycle to overheat your WP17 torch cable, actually implies that the power supply itself is healthy. If your Super200P were not capable of overheating a WP17's power cable, it would mean there is something wrong with it. Check out the rated durty cycle of even an American made (i.e., Weldcraft) WP17. 60% duty cycle at 200 amps, (the rated output of the Super200P) is way more than the WP17 is rated for. In fact a WP26 is barely even up to the job.

Here are some examples of a very common brand of TIG torch power and duty cycle ratings for AC and DC operation. (The TIG torch ratings presented on the following page are for 60% duty cycle):
http://www.weldcraft.com/products/wp...ld-air-cooled/

Regarding making a Super200P last a long time, there is a design flaw with the diode circuit that you should be aware of. In my case, I didn't have any problems with it until only after I upgraded the torch to a CK TL-210 (200amps AC @ 100% duty cycle rated torch) and attempted to weld some godawful thick aluminum. Luckily, there is a fix for the diode problem, involving simply removing some diodes that cause some instability. If you wanted to make your machine as reliable as possible, you could do this preventatively (before any diode went out.) You will probably not experience any problems with it using the WP17 torch, though.
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...ghlight=melted

[mightyhammer]

So you just removed the 2 diodes tied in the circuits and all was well huh? I will keep that in mind. I like the idea of replacing with single higher rated diodes than running several in series. You have been a wealth of knowlege and help Jake, I really appreciate all your help. You are very articulate in your explanations and have been a great help, maybe Everlast should hire you as a tech rep! Coop

[jakeru]

To perform the Superp200P "diode-ectomy", there are four dual-diode packages in total that should be removed. Getting at two of them located near the center of the machine requires the removal of one of the large heat sink assemblies. The picture below shows a Super200P with the large heat sink assembly removed (to give you an idea of what state your machine will be in during the job):

Also, during the job you should trim away any second layer of rubber insulation you may find between any of the remaining diodes and the heat sink. (In order to promote maximum heat transfer between a diode and a heat sink, there should only be one layer of the rubber insulation.)

I wouldn't recommend doing any of this unless you have upgraded your TIG torch.