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Thread: Aluminum outboard skeg repair (bigger one this time... with He mix)

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  1. #1
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    Default Aluminum outboard skeg repair (bigger one this time... with He mix)

    I replaced a broken off skeg off a fairly large outboard motor. This was a physically larger motor (higher horsepower) and skeg. Larger skeg, and thicker material than I'd done before.
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    Here is my previous skeg repair (happened to post a thread about it too) :
    http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...(TIG-aluminum)

    Although the skeg repair was technically "harder" this time around, it seemed to go easier, perhaps because I refined my approach in the solution a bit.

    The customer bought a replacement skeg, and it wasn't quite a perfect fit. For one, it didn't have the perfect contour, but more significantly, it's thickness was 1/2", while the thickness of the remainer of the original skeg (the broken off "stub") was 1/4".
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    On the previous go-around doing a skeg repair (in the link above) I used product called "heat fence", which was sort of a clay or putty. It would go on moist, and as it encountered heat, it would absorb it heat and dry out in the process, as water inside it evaporated. The main thing I don't like about it is, it's messy and not something you want to touch your clean gloves on. I ended up supplementing it with extra water last time, so this time I just skipped the messy heat fence and went straight to using a water-wetted cotton towel for heat control.

    Also, this time, I used a Helium-argon mix, which I now have access to. For this thick material, I wanted an instant puddle, to weld "hot and fast", to minimize heat input into the work as much as possible. This approach seemed to work great!

    To prepare, first I ground the pieces to match contours. I generally left as much "meat" in the part with the oil and gears (and prop) as much as possible. I removed material from the replacement skeg instead of the "stub" as much as I could.

    Then, I ground the sides of the replacement skeg into a Vee shape. This is important on many alloys for reducing hot cracking (and also makes more fully penetrating easier.) I have an aluminum 4.5" angle grinding wheel that is the right tool for this job - doesn't load up.
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    Then time for the tack welds. Sometimes it's really tricky just getting that first tack weld on there with the parts oriented in the right position. I got it done this time by bending a filler rod and propping the filler rod up in the weld groove - so gravity would feed the filler rod automatically as soon as I made a puddle in the appropriate spot. That freed up one hand to hold the pieces in alignment. It worked like a charm!
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    I followed up by putting a couple more tack welds on it, and then I start running a stitch weld bead. I stopped after each stitch, let it cool (cool to the touch and welding "hot and fast" with the helium, I was surprised it didn't heat up that much even right after the first stitch...)

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    ...then I'd ran another stitch section. Cooling with a water soaked rag helped a lot, to quickly cool it when it got .

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    I got water down into the groove at one time, which caused a problem because you can't weld something that's wet (without hydrogen porosity) compressed air came to the rescue drying it off.

    After repeating the stitch, I'd then cool it down to the touch, and do the same over a few times, then flipped it over, checked the vertical alignment of the skeg was doing okay, and did some stitches on the other side.

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    At one point, one of the stitches cracked from the heat expansion and cooling contraction of the other stitches. I would go over it a second pass, trying to melt through deeply and quickly, with the hot, high helium mix. I also used a second pass to straighten the skeg as needed into neatly perfect vertical alignment. (To be honest I can't remember if this picture was before straightening or after. But the photo may have been off to the side which makes it look crooked even if it's not.)

    Here is how it looked after it was done being welded:

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    Some info on the welding settings used for this:
    Based on the thickness of the material, I stepped up the Helium mix percentage, to about 33%. 10cfh argon, 5cfh Helium. I kept on the #6 gas lens cup I had on these, along with the 1/16" tungsten. (2% lanthanated.) Since this work was large enough that I didn't feel like dragging it up on my table (also the water cooling operations are more easily done with a lot of room), I ended up welding it down on the floor and not on my bench, and I set up the torch switch instead of the footpedal. I set the current up to get me as close to "wide open" as my machine can do with the torch switch, which is about ~190 amps or so the way the knob works on my machine (Foot pedal, I can reach 198 amps according to the digital readout, but the panel knob can't quite reach that.) Anyhow, I used my usual 20% AC Balance, and no pulse.

    I didn't set any downslope, but in hindsight, probably should have set at least a little bit, to taper off the current at the end a bit.

    (Next post... grinding)
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  2. #2
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    ..Continuing from the post above, I ground the thick 1/2" skeg down (including the weld bead) to bled it into the 1/4" 'stub' material to remove any stress riser. So if it gets bumped, all the stress won't be concentrated at one spot (likely causing a crack at that spot.) It was quite a bit of grinding and although I didn't go for total perfection... I think it came out pretty good.
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    I've got an aluminum (nonferrous) grinding wheel that works pretty well to "rough in" the desired shape. Then I followed up with a finer flap wheel to remove the grinding gouge marks and pretty it up a little bit.
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    The customer said he's going to paint it. Do you think maybe, no one might be able to tell it was weld repaired in the first place? (That was kind of my goal.)
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  3. #3

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    Nice work. Aside from the grinding marks it looks stock. Once its painted you would never know the difference.
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  4. #4

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    Looks great. The problem with water cooling is they do crack sometimes, but you really didn't have a choice. You can't smoke the seals up on the lower unit. Do you have a part number for the grinding wheel or where you got it. I have been looking for one. I welded in a situation where there was a seal close by one time. I decided to use my spool gun because it inputs alot less heat because you move so fast. So I didn't have to worry about the seal.
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  5. #5

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    Nice Job!

    I think the skeg is cast, right? Did that cause any issues on getting good penetration or a good weld?

    Cheers,

    Mike

  6. #6

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    Interesting post. Looks like a nice job.

    What did the guy pay you for this?

  7. #7
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    Did the guy mention how the skeg broke in the first place?
    DaveO
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  8. #8

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    Turned out really good!, ground down you can`t tell its ever been repaired!
    Gil
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    Thanks for the props, charger. The customer said he'd e-mail me pictures of the outboard when he gets all done rebuilding it (including painting it.) I'll post them up on this thread although it might take him a while to complete.

    He showed me pictures of the old, original outboard motor that this one will replace, which looked really cool, it was a probably an early 70's Chrysler outboard and looked pretty "retro", matching the fiberglass boat it was for, also. He had a cool story about the retro boat; it's been in his family since he was a youngster.
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  10. #10

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    Great job. In your opinion, does Helium help significantly? I've always wanted to try to TIG some aluminum with helium.
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  11. #11
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    Yeah it does. I'm pretty much hooked on the Helium now, especially for anything that isn't thin.

    I like mixing in just a little bit (enough to just lift the floating ball on the Helium flowgauge), combined with about 10-12cfh Argon.

    The arc does start a little bit harder though, with the Helium mixed in there. It's not really a problem, but it is something that's noticeable when you go back to pure argon (how easily the arc starts.)
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  12. #12

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    Was that 5356 filler Jake?

    did you ever get a new welder form the contest you won? I assume not yet since you are still using Old Faithful.
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  13. #13

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    Nice job on the cast aluminum part!


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cippee View Post
    The problem with water cooling is they do crack sometimes, but you really didn't have a choice. You can't smoke the seals up on the lower unit.
    I totally agree with you, I would not have used water cooling unless there were a good reason. "Tink" is not a good sound to hear after completing a weld... I have a pic of the weld "stitch" that cracked on this project, I think from the uneven cooling by the water quenching; I will post it up a bit later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cippee View Post
    Do you have a part number for the grinding wheel or where you got it. I have been looking for one.
    Here is a post with one source on the aluminum grinding wheel :
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeru View Post
    Then I got out a new aluminum-specific 4.5" grinding wheel ... The aluminum-specific grinding wheel worked very quickly and effectively! It left a smoother surface than I would have guessed and also worked very quickly without loading up. (Like a flap disc does on aluminum.) Here is what the aluminum grinding wheel looks like:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike J View Post
    I think the skeg is cast, right? Did that cause any issues on getting good penetration or a good weld?
    Yes, both sides were cast. The replacement skeg had a rough, sand cast texture to it. The original piece had a smoother surface finish, but I'm guessing was sand cast as well.

    There were a couple places when I was welding where I encountered a "pocket" of something that wasn't liquid aluminum, and was impeding the flow of the liquid aluminum. You know you've got this when you've got a ring of liquid up to with a deep crater in the middle of it. It made me linger in that spot for longer, to try and penetrate the puddle deep enough to get under the "pocket", and float it up to the surface. I sure am glad I had the Helium mix for the extra power boost on this.

    It's a bit bummer to have to wait in one spot to melt a really big puddle on a part that you are trying to minimize heat input into, but the other way of dealing with it properly is very time consuming: break out the carbide burrs, dental scalers, etc and go at it "digging out" the foreign substance.

    Some of the black smut may have been either aluminum on my tungsten burning off, or perhaps some bit of contamination on the surface or in the material. For the most part though, the material welded just fine though.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveO View Post
    Did the guy mention how the skeg broke in the first place?
    The customer is picking it up today; I'll see if I can learn more about the cause of the broken skeg. He did tell me he was rebuilding the motor. It sounded like a pretty thorough effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by sportbike View Post
    Was that 5356 filler Jake?
    Yes; 5356. I figured since this part would not see high temperatures in service, I'd go with it. I am fond of it's extra ductility and strength for lots of alloys over 4043.

    Quote Originally Posted by sportbike View Post
    did you ever get a new welder form the contest you won? I assume not yet since you are still using Old Faithful.
    I didn't get in on the first batch of 250EXTs, so I am waiting for the next batch. I am in no rush if it gets delayed as long as it needs to, as "Old Faithful" is getting my by better than ever before with the Helium mix I now have access to.
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    Do not use too much He. I heard that there is a shortage and upwards of 200 to fill some bottles in some parts of the US now. My local welding store said people from Wyoming are shipping there bottles down here to have them filled because of the shortage.
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  16. #16

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    What I like to do on casting repairs is to do a "cleaning run", which is just a first pass without filler rod to draw out the problem spots. Let it cool then grind, drill, or de-burr those problem spots. On that first pass I don't stay too long on any one problem spot, this help keeps the temps down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVA View Post
    Do not use too much He. I heard that there is a shortage and upwards of 200 to fill some bottles in some parts of the US now. My local welding store said people from Wyoming are shipping there bottles down here to have them filled because of the shortage.
    DVA, when you mix Helium yourself from a big cylinder at a very slow flow rate, it actually works out to be very cheap for a job like this, and is a pretty big no-brainer, IMO.

    Let me go through some math, using this job as an example. Let's say I was "on the gas" (pre-flow / post-flow / welding arc) for 5 minutes. (If anything, 5 minutes is liberal, it was probably closer to about 3.5 minutes... I figure 12-20 seconds gas flow per "stitch", four stitches per side on the initial pass, 3 tack welds before the first pass, and a second pass after the first (which went a lot faster / fewer stitches.) But we'll go with 5 minutes total flow time for now; conservative round number and all.) 5 minutes flow time x 5 cfh flow rate = .4 cubic feet Helium gas consumption. In other words, that's about .1%, or 1/1000 of my 330 cubic foot tank.

    Then, let's say you are right, and my next bottle fill does cost me $200. (I am not doubting you that the price may increase significantly since my last bottle fill, I remember I got it filled right before price increases from some "shortage" back then.) Yet, the price increase doesn't matter. It would mean I spent 20 cents on Helium on this job.

    For something that can so easily save so much time, (like on this job especially... 1/2" thick aluminum... 200 amp machine, pre-heating is not an option, can't get the work too hot in one shot, or have to stop and cool it.) It is a huge no-brainer to use it. Even if the price does go up quite a bit more, it is still a no-brainer for a job like this to use it, where it could have saved me easily 20 minutes, and possibly as much as an hour or so.

    I would sooner be fusing filler rod end stubs together for profit, than I would be avoiding using Helium on a job like this, where it can be such a time saver. (I actually do like to fuse filler rod end stubs together by the way when I am using a footpedal for current control, but its more for a fun, as kind of a challenge than actually being for a profit motivation ) Just my 2 cents.

    Quote Originally Posted by dyethor View Post
    What I like to do on casting repairs is to do a "cleaning run", which is just a first pass without filler rod to draw out the problem spots. Let it cool then grind, drill, or de-burr those problem spots. On that first pass I don't stay too long on any one problem spot, this help keeps the temps down.
    [edit]
    Dyethor, I just checked into that "trouble spot" a little more thoroughly based on the pictures I took and saved. I just figured out the spot where I really ran into some contamination while welding, was right where this one spot in the material was that didn't get ground down completely. (The customer brought it to me this way. I decided to not grind it down significantly, to leave as much "heat sink" as possible on this piece.

    See, to the left of the tape measure about 1" in the picture below.
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    I did hit is lightly and quickly with my flap wheel, but that was kind of worn out edge at the moment and apparently didn't get into that "dirty notch" all that well. If I had hit it with my aluminum angle grinder, and that would have gotten it.

    Also, if I had done an "etch pass", as Dyethor suggested, I am thinking that it almost certainly would have told me there was something on the surface of the aluminum in in that spot (dirty, crusty black stuff, I'm thinking.) This would have given me a signal to use more abrasives in that spot to make it really clean before beginning the full penetration welds, which then would have gone more cleanly. Good call, Dyethor!
    Last edited by jakeru; 02-21-2012 at 07:15 AM.
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  18. #18

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    just out of curosity what did you charge to do this?

  19. #19
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    I just checked my notes, and all I found in there was that it took me ~1.5 hrs, but I couldn't find the $ figure in there; forgot to write it down. Cash transaction.
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  20. #20
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    The customer e-mailed me some pictures of the finished result. He seemed pretty proud, and I would say for good reason! Looks like he did a very good job getting it all back together.

    Here is the weld-repaired lower unit after paint:
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    And here is the rebuilt, completely assembled outboard motor (a 1979 Chrysler) that the lower unit got installed into:
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