PowerForPowerPro256

[DannyB1954]

I just received my new PowerPro 256.I unpacked it, and was surprised to find a 230 volt 20 amp power plug included.
Looking at the spec sheet for the machine, the maximum input start up amps are more like 40. Can this machine really be run off of a 20 amp circuit?

[zoama]

The chinamen put those in... it's recomended that you don't use it. Get a 50amp plug.

[DannyB1954]

I just went back out to take a look at the cable itself. it is 10 gauge. This is usually used for a 30 amp load.
The 50 amp plug is probably more common than the 30, but I am trying to figure out what size breaker to put in the power panel.
Putting a 50 amp receptacle on a 30 amp breaker is not right as well.

[zoama]

I just went back out to take a look at the cable itself. it is 10 gauge. This is usually used for a 30 amp load.
The 50 amp plug is probably more common than the 30, but I am trying to figure out what size breaker to put in the power panel.
Putting a 50 amp receptacle on a 30 amp breaker is not right as well.

I run a 50amp breaker and plug... my 256 came with 12ga wire... the new ones have 10ga.

[performance]

Guys,
AS I have pointed out before...the NEC changes the rules on wiring when it comes to duty cycle limited machines such as welders. The load is not constant, so wires, and cables can be derated. Your plasma pulls the most, and it can spike above 40.

[DannyB1954]

OK thanks for the reply. I am off to home depot.

[DannyB1954]

I am going with a 30 amp service. If the machines used to come with 12 gauge, (which is only good for 20 amps), then later came with 10 gauge, (which is good for a constant 30 amps), then that is what I will wire for. My power panel is in the front of the property, the garage in the back, (2.3 acre lot) right now I have 8 gauge wires feeding the garage. If I were to install a 50 amp service, I would have to run heavier wires. It would cost a fortune. I don't have an argon bottle yet, but I will do some stick work and let you know how it goes.

It would have been nice to have the info for required breaker and wire requirements placed in the manual. The information may be here somewhere on the website, but when I looked for it, I could not find it.

[Brian Ski]

I am not an electrician by trade but have done a lot of wiring. The breaker is designed to protect the wiring. (The wiring between the breaker and the outlet). There is an exception when it comes to the cord on the appliance it can be smaller. So I would rate the breaker needed as at least 10% higher than the full current draw on the appliance. Then the wiring from the breaker to the outlet rated at or better than that capacity.

An example is when you need to run a power tool at 12 amps 100 feet away. You need a 12 gauge extension cord that is ran off a 20 amp outlet but the power tool has only a 16 gauge cord on it. Clear as mud right???

BTW if you do run another service all the way back and plan to use larger power tools. Run a 2-2-2 Alum wire. The cost is probably going to be close to the number 6 copper anyway and it will help with less of a voltage drop. You sure don't want to be welding and have a compressor kick on and all the lights go out.

Brian

[zoama]

I am going with a 30 amp service. If the machines used to come with 12 gauge, (which is only good for 20 amps), then later came with 10 gauge, (which is good for a constant 30 amps), then that is what I will wire for. My power panel is in the front of the property, the garage in the back, (2.3 acre lot) right now I have 8 gauge wires feeding the garage. If I were to install a 50 amp service, I would have to run heavier wires. It would cost a fortune. I don't have an argon bottle yet, but I will do some stick work and let you know how it goes.

It would have been nice to have the info for required breaker and wire requirements placed in the manual. The information may be here somewhere on the website, but when I looked for it, I could not find it.

Your not going to pull 50amps, you only need it for the split second inrush current that will trip a 30amp breaker.

[Brian Ski]

It would have been nice to have the info for required breaker and wire requirements placed in the manual. The information may be here somewhere on the website, but when I looked for it, I could not find it.

Here is a like to the specs... http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Po...6-3909-pd.html

On the right forth row down maximum amps. It is in the 30s so you should go with a 40 amp breaker or even a 50 would work well. You can still use the 30 amp breaker you planned but if you run for a while wide open you might or probably will trip it. Just like most welders you usually don't run wide open too long.

[posixPilot]

If I were to install a 50 amp service, I would have to run heavier wires. It would cost a fortune.

Danny,

To get what you paid for out of the 256, you are going to want to get a 50A service at some point. You might want to consider a heavy gauge extension cord, as an alternative to upgrading your service. You can find surplus SOOW for a good price.

In addition to the limited duty cycle, the extension cord can be derated further since it is not carried in conduit.

Cheers
Mike

[DannyB1954]

Thanks to all for the good advice. For the time being I am only doing thin material, so the 30 amp breaker and 10 gauge wire I put in will have to do for now. I did some stick welding today with 1/8 " rod and the machine seemed to be quite happy. The one problem that I did have was that I set the machine for stick then turned it on. my amp readings were bouncing all over the place. Things settled down OK once I turned the pulse off, (never had a pulse capable welder). I can see where this feature might be quite handy for vertical stick welds giving the puddle time to set before the heat makes it droop.
Monday or Tuesday I will go get an argon bottle. I read that the CO2/argon bottle that I have for the mig will just not do. I got a price for a full 80 cu' owner bottle for $150.00. Is there an advantage to going with a larger bottle, as in a 125 cu', like a price break getting it filled?

[Brian Ski]

I read that the CO2/argon bottle that I have for the mig will just not do. I got a price for a full 80 cu' owner bottle for $150.00. Is there an advantage to going with a larger bottle, as in a 125 cu', like a price break getting it filled?

2 things, the larger the bottle the better break on price...Quite considerably. Mostly you are paying is for handling of filling tanks... Also if you do not need the 75/25 tank most welding places will just swap it for a 100% bottle. But if you are running 2 machines you probably want a second bottle.

[posixPilot]

Definitely a better price for a larger cylinder ... I bought my 150cf tank for $209 + $41 fill. General rule of thumb is to get the largest tank you can handle (both physically and fiscally). The 150 is pretty easy to move around and is not as heavy as I thought it would be. A couple of weeks ago I was at AirGas, and a guy pulled in with a 330cf in the bed of his truck. He brought a friend along just to help him move that thing ... He ended up swapping for a pair of 150s, and it cost him a ton of money.

Cheers
Mike

[DannyB1954]

2 things, the larger the bottle the better break on price...Quite considerably. Mostly you are paying is for handling of filling tanks... Also if you do not need the 75/25 tank most welding places will just swap it for a 100% bottle. But if you are running 2 machines you probably want a second bottle.

Thanks for your reply.
I read your post and then searched the web. Most people say the 100% argon is not good with steel, so a separate tank it will be. The TIG will be stationary, so a bigger bottle will not be too large a problem. I will call around on Monday for prices.

[Brian Ski]

Thanks for your reply.
I read your post and then searched the web. Most people say the 100% argon is not good with steel, so a separate tank it will be. The TIG will be stationary, so a bigger bottle will not be too large a problem. I will call around on Monday for prices.

You have to check with your gas suppliers... Around here some place the large tanks are rentals only. So if it has their name on it and it is the "rental" size you get burned if you do not have a contract. Kind of a pit fall if you buy a tank at a garage sale and it is the wrong one. Trust me you learn fast about tanks if that happens.

BTW some of the guys had some pretty good deals on a rental tank. You may check on that also. You don't own the tank but if you get a killer rate for the refills it may make up for the price plus not having to buy a tank. Me I guess I am not a rental person.

[zoama]

Thanks for your reply.
I read your post and then searched the web. Most people say the 100% argon is not good with steel, so a separate tank it will be. The TIG will be stationary, so a bigger bottle will not be too large a problem. I will call around on Monday for prices.

100% argon is exactly what you need to tig weld steel... nothing else.

[Brian Ski]

100% argon is exactly what you need to tig weld steel... nothing else.

I wasn't sure, I use the 75/25 for the MIG. I was going to use 100% Argon on the TIG but it might only be used for Aluminum.

[DannyB1954]

The problem with a rental for me I think is that I do not foresee using a lot of gas, (doing this for a hobby). The rental fees could end up costing me more than buying a tank in the long run.