Welding helmet question

[Brian Ski]

Since CGCINC brought it up that his helmet wasn't working well with TIG... What is so different with TIG than a MIG welder???? Is the Arc that much brighter???

I did some looking at helmets and some say not to be used with TIG. But they still go to a #14 shade.

[FordSloman]

What is so different with TIG than a MIG welder?

IMO, MIG arc flashes at once, but TIG arc slowly increases its brightness, so there is not so much difference for the helmet between starting an arc and changing of room lighting.

[scootarida1]

I would say that the arc for tig is much smoother and consistent. A mig arc flashes and can be inconsistent. I would think that maybe because of a smoother arc and much lower amperage or smaller arc you can control with tig, the sensors in the helmet might not be able to pick up a to small of a light intensity

[Winky]

Since CGCINC brought it up that his helmet wasn't working well with TIG... What is so different with TIG than a MIG welder???? Is the Arc that much brighter???

I did some looking at helmets and some say not to be used with TIG. But they still go to a #14 shade.

Some helmets don't have thier own internal power supply (i.e. batteries) and use the term "solar powered" they rely on the light to power them up and sometimes the light from a TIG or Plasma unit is too subtler to initiate them ... these are usually the helmets that aren't recomeded for TIG or plasma there may be some other lesser expensive helmets with thier own internal power source that aren't sensitive enough to activate the shade ... when it comes to your eyes ... don't skimp ... get the right helmet ... your vision is worth the money.

[Brian Ski]

Some helmets don't have thier own internal power supply (i.e. batteries) and use the term "solar powered" they rely on the light to power them up and sometimes the light from a TIG or Plasma unit is too subtler to initiate them ... these are usually the helmets that aren't recomeded for TIG or plasma there may be some other lesser expensive helmets with thier own internal power source that aren't sensitive enough to activate the shade ... when it comes to your eyes ... don't skimp ... get the right helmet ... your vision is worth the money.

Oh I agree on getting the right helmet. I have found some helmets labeled for MIG, TIG and Stick welding. Then looking through the instructions it said not for TIG. Nice to see specs contradicting each other.

Trying to see what the difference is. I can understand what you say about the TIG being a lighter arc and not kicking the shade on fast enough. That sounds reasonable. Sometimes it is tough to know what is the "right" helmet and price is not the best indicator.

[CGCINC]

I am having problems with seeing my MIG welding. I use a different helmet for TIG and it works wonderfully! I need to try that helmet with my MIG welder but I just don't want to get splatter all over it...

[Winky]

Oh I agree on getting the right helmet. I have found some helmets labeled for MIG, TIG and Stick welding. Then looking through the instructions it said not for TIG. Nice to see specs contradicting each other.

Trying to see what the difference is. I can understand what you say about the TIG being a lighter arc and not kicking the shade on fast enough. That sounds reasonable. Sometimes it is tough to know what is the "right" helmet and price is not the best indicator.

You are right sometimes price isn’t the best indicator but it’s a given if you buy a $29.95 helmet from Harbor Freight it’s probably not going to give you the best protection. (No offense to Harbor Freight ... I have tools from them that work fine) I’ve always found it best to buy by reputation … any time I’m not sure about how something is going to work for any particular situation I have a couple gurus I go to at my gas supplier (Airgas corp.)

[posixPilot]

Can anyone actually quantify why the cheap helmets are bad/dangerous? I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I struggled with this question before buying a helmet, and I still do not understand. For the record, I have $60 cheap helmet from Northern Tool. My rationale for buying a cheap helmet is that I would rather chuck a $60 piece of garbage in the bin, than a $300 piece of garbage. At least now I know what I don't like about my helmet, when I'm ready to shop for a new one.

Back to the point though, the only quantifiable specs I see published for helmets are the reaction time, where 1/25000th of a second is apparently the gold standard, and the DIN shade. Both of these specs can be had at ideal values in a helmet costing well under $100.

So what makes a helmet dangerous? Mostly what I see in the expensive helmets are additional features. There are those features (I.e. x-mode and 4 sensor arrays) that add to the safety of the helmet, but these apply to very specific failure modes and may not be valuable to every kind of weldor.

Thanks
Mike

[Winky]

Can anyone actually quantify why the cheap helmets are bad/dangerous? I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I struggled with this question before buying a helmet, and I still do not understand. For the record, I have $60 cheap helmet from Northern Tool. My rationale for buying a cheap helmet is that I would rather chuck a $60 piece of garbage in the bin, than a $300 piece of garbage. At least now I know what I don't like about my helmet, when I'm ready to shop for a new one.

Back to the point though, the only quantifiable specs I see published for helmets are the reaction time, where 1/25000th of a second is apparently the gold standard, and the DIN shade. Both of these specs can be had at ideal values in a helmet costing well under $100.

So what makes a helmet dangerous? Mostly what I see in the expensive helmets are additional features. There are those features (I.e. x-mode and 4 sensor arrays) that add to the safety of the helmet, but these apply to very specific failure modes and may not be valuable to every kind of weldor.

Thanks
Mike

When I took my old mig welder down to Cali to give it to my son he had never welded before and didn't have a helmet so I picked up a $50 unit and took it down and presented it to him as well. I made him take note as to the warning inside that stated it was not to be used for TIG and told him stick or mig was fine. My point was just to use your head and make sure whatever helmet you get is going to serve your needs adequately. Having only one eye I am supper sensitive to the safety issue. I have a Jackson helmet that I paid around a hundred dollars for and it’s fine. As I stated before price is NOT the sole determining factor … in fact the old school non-electric helmets would be OK and you can pick them up super cheap … but you have to strike your arc blind because as soon as you drop it over your face you can’t see.

[undercut]

I'm probably a couple steps behind posixPilot. Didn't have anything to compare against so I went with reviews and specs (which are like statistics - you can twist and contort them if they aren't tested independently). I hear that some filters have a gold reflection to them which helps the wearer to distinguish the pool better(?)

I went ahead and bought the Harbor Freight "Blue Flame" helmet. Green viewport. Website and documentation state it will be OK to use with TIG but I can't test. Anyone out there who can educate me (us) on what would be a good upgrade to this and why? I haven't seen a good side-by-side comparison of helmets on the web.

[Winky]

I'm probably a couple steps behind posixPilot. Didn't have anything to compare against so I went with reviews and specs (which are like statistics - you can twist and contort them if they aren't tested independently). I hear that some filters have a gold reflection to them which helps the wearer to distinguish the pool better(?)

I went ahead and bought the Harbor Freight "Blue Flame" helmet. Green viewport. Website and documentation state it will be OK to use with TIG but I can't test. Anyone out there who can educate me (us) on what would be a good upgrade to this and why? I haven't seen a good side-by-side comparison of helmets on the web.

If the documentation says it’s good to go for TIG and you see there are no conflicting statements than I’m sure it will be fine. I haven’t looked at that particular model I do know that Harbor Freight carries a couple models that are not recommended for TIG. I’m assuming this one uses batteries and is not a “solar Powered” helmet … if it is solar I would use some caution. If you use the helmet and discover it works well for you, is comfortable and you can see what you’re doing I wouldn’t worry about upgrading. Personally I’ve only made two upgrades since I started welding but only one that really made a difference …. That was when I went from a my non-powered Randor to my powered Jackson … I discovered early on it’s nice to be able so see as you strike and arc.

[67cudafb]

CGCINC how do you like that lincoln helmet you have for tig and mig?

[CGCINC]

CGCINC how do you like that lincoln helmet you have for tig and mig?

I've only used it for TIG once...Probably all I'll use it for. The viewing area is Amazing!! I always fought trying to see and getting my head just right with a small viewing area and my trifocal glasses but this helmet makes all that go away!

[hooda]

Can anyone actually quantify why the cheap helmets are bad/dangerous? I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I struggled with this question before buying a helmet, and I still do not understand. For the record, I have $60 cheap helmet from Northern Tool. My rationale for buying a cheap helmet is that I would rather chuck a $60 piece of garbage in the bin, than a $300 piece of garbage. At least now I know what I don't like about my helmet, when I'm ready to shop for a new one.

Back to the point though, the only quantifiable specs I see published for helmets are the reaction time, where 1/25000th of a second is apparently the gold standard, and the DIN shade. Both of these specs can be had at ideal values in a helmet costing well under $100.

So what makes a helmet dangerous? Mostly what I see in the expensive helmets are additional features. There are those features (I.e. x-mode and 4 sensor arrays) that add to the safety of the helmet, but these apply to very specific failure modes and may not be valuable to every kind of weldor.

Thanks
Mike

IMHO, the more sensors, and the better quality, the better. I bought a low-end speedglas (model 100), and I figured that it would do fine as a backup or "guest" helmet. Wrong answer. It would flash back into light state when welding low-amp TIG, just like it warned that it would. I ended up getting rid of it. My first ADF was a Hunstman Nitro (about $120.00 all over the place) It has shade 9-13, light weight, and a super-comfotable headgear. It has NEVER failed so far, even under low-amp TIG. My main helmet is a Speedglas 9100x that I got a great deal on, but, after welding with it, if it went out, I'd gladly pony up the $400.00 or so that they currently go for, rather than go back to the Nitro. Once you use a High-end helmet, just the peace of mind that you have a unit that will NOT fail is worth it, along with a bigger viewing area, and superior clarity in light state, so you can see where you're going next without lifting the helmet. Bottom line, again my opinion, Huntsman Nitro, $120, great low end tig, comfortable, small viewing area. Speedglas 9100x, $400+, great EVERYWHERE, more comfy that the Nitro, large viewing area. Northern tool special, $60.00, don't risk your eyes on it.

[Jules The Great]

I'm probably a couple steps behind posixPilot. Didn't have anything to compare against so I went with reviews and specs (which are like statistics - you can twist and contort them if they aren't tested independently). I hear that some filters have a gold reflection to them which helps the wearer to distinguish the pool better(?)

I went ahead and bought the Harbor Freight "Blue Flame" helmet. Green viewport. Website and documentation state it will be OK to use with TIG but I can't test. Anyone out there who can educate me (us) on what would be a good upgrade to this and why? I haven't seen a good side-by-side comparison of helmets on the web.

Undercut,
Not sure if you are saying you are looking to upgrade to the HF helmet or from, sorry I am easily confused.

Was going to say that I have that blue flame helmet. My first upgrage was to remove all the blue stickers.

On its auto darkening ability I presonally have found it to be amazing, I just leave it in a place where it can get sunlight to keep it all charged up. I have TIG welded and MIG welded with it and had no problems. I have used the adjustability depending on how many amps I am running. I have used it to TIG weld at 5 amps and had no problems with it. The only time is swtiches off is on rare occasions where the sensor can not see the arc, and when your tungsten get contaminated the arc colour must change and the helmet decides it is not there but as soon as you regrind no problems.

The only annoying thing I could point out is sometimes if you have too much light and a shiney surface nearby the helmet will sometimes decide that you are welding and stay on so you can't see.

But I do love it and would/will buy another one to have for guests/backup when I get around to it.

[undercut]

Undercut,
Not sure if you are saying you are looking to upgrade to the HF helmet or from, sorry I am easily confused.

You and I make a great pair as sometimes my words come out confusing!

Was going to say that I have that blue flame helmet. My first upgrage was to remove all the blue stickers.

Yeah, I hear you there. I'm still within my return period so unfortunately the flames stay on a bit longer .... LOL

I bought it in anticipation of welding with an inverter unit I bought from Harbour Freight. Unfortunately, I can only weld outdoors and the weather was bad for a couple of weeks. I wanted to ensure it worked so I was trying all sorts of lights on the thing to see if it would darken. After a couple of days of shining lights on the sensors and googling for suggestions, I found out all I needed to do was point a remote at it. Too simple!

The Harbor Freight welder failed so I haven't been able to do much additional testing on the helmet.

Thanks for your feedback, greatly appreciated.

[Winky]

IMHO, the more sensors, and the better quality, the better. I bought a low-end speedglas (model 100), and I figured that it would do fine as a backup or "guest" helmet. Wrong answer. It would flash back into light state when welding low-amp TIG, just like it warned that it would. I ended up getting rid of it. My first ADF was a Hunstman Nitro (about $120.00 all over the place) It has shade 9-13, light weight, and a super-comfotable headgear. It has NEVER failed so far, even under low-amp TIG. My main helmet is a Speedglas 9100x that I got a great deal on, but, after welding with it, if it went out, I'd gladly pony up the $400.00 or so that they currently go for, rather than go back to the Nitro. Once you use a High-end helmet, just the peace of mind that you have a unit that will NOT fail is worth it, along with a bigger viewing area, and superior clarity in light state, so you can see where you're going next without lifting the helmet. Bottom line, again my opinion, Huntsman Nitro, $120, great low end tig, comfortable, small viewing area. Speedglas 9100x, $400+, great EVERYWHERE, more comfy that the Nitro, large viewing area. Northern tool special, $60.00, don't risk your eyes on it.

I thought I was happy with my Jackson but after reading your post I think want to give a high end helmet a try.

[posixPilot]

IMHO, the more sensors, and the better quality, the better. I bought a low-end speedglas (model 100), and I figured that it would do fine as a backup or "guest" helmet. Wrong answer. It would flash back into light state when welding low-amp TIG,

I look at additional sensors as an additional feature, since two sensors provide redundancy and are usually sufficient unless you are welding out of position. Again, it's a matter of application, just like you wouldn't TIG with an auto dark helmet that wasn't designed for TIG.

... just the peace of mind that you have a unit that will NOT fail is worth it

I don't care what you paid for it, anything can fail .

Northern tool special, $60.00, don't risk your eyes on it.

This is really why I posed the question in the first place. For someone shopping for their first helmet, it's a pretty obvious answer ... "no I don't want to go blind", and apparently I have to spend $400 to keep from being blinded, based on the remarks. However, there are never any reasons given why the cheap helmets are risky ... just attributes like quality and reliability which are completely subjective and intangible.

Thanks for everyone's feed back on this ... Here's my 2 cents. I do not think that my $60 helmet is substantially more likely to fail/blind me than any other helmet, given that I'm using it for its intended purpose. I'd rather save my pennies and invest in a quality helmet once I know what that needs to be, rather than diving into some unwarranted purchase for fear of going blind. I hope I'm not wrong

Cheers
Mike

[undercut]

Bloomin' hard to get quantitative information and there aren't too many people who have tried a great many helmets for even a subjective assessment. I'd love to try a 3m helmet out (or any, well received high end helmet) just to see what I'm missing.

I know some of the pricier units have a greater field of view.

Grind mode might be useful. I was reading another forum and someone might have gotten something in his eye while grinding - got past his safety glasses.

I read in one location about the amber lens in the Jackson Boss - that it helped that welder see the weld pool better than the green lens. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[everlastsupport]

Bloomin' hard to get quantitative information and there aren't too many people who have tried a great many helmets for even a subjective assessment. I'd love to try a 3m helmet out (or any, well received high end helmet) just to see what I'm missing.

I know some of the pricier units have a greater field of view.

Grind mode might be useful. I was reading another forum and someone might have gotten something in his eye while grinding - got past his safety glasses.

I read in one location about the amber lens in the Jackson Boss - that it helped that welder see the weld pool better than the green lens. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Undercut. My take on what I have used.

I've used HF (cheapo model, blue flame and skull helmet), old Jackson (GOLD lens), Low end SpeedGlas, Everlast, Viking, Elite.

You get what you pay for no doubt, but I found they all worked fine, the welding got done. No major flashing as I recall on any of them.

One of the HF ones (think the blue one) rubbed my ears, and drove me nuts. The old Jackson and MIG was really slick, no green view, was black and white and VERY clear.

SpeedGlas, I liked it a lot. The Viking and Elite. Well the viewing area, but the $$$. Would like the digi camo Elite if I could win a contest like CGCINC, and I do not care about what color and design, but I like that one..

Oh, the HF red skul helmet (I would not use it in front of people) but I did try one, I was shocked how well it worked. Also, there is a red ugly ($120 range) Northern Tools helmet I have never used, but never seen a bad review on it (and hundreds of them). It is red and stickered up, ugly as heck. They had a deal for $90 once and I almost bought one, but I tent to collect and give away helmets, and passed on it.

NOW, Oh course, I have a couple Everlast helmets and what I use (for real). The 2 sensor and 4 sensor are nice, for the price, nothing wrong with the 2 sensor Everlast helmet I use all the time unless I grab the other one by mistake.