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Thread: CO2 VS Argon/CO2 mix while ferrous steel

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  1. #1
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    Default CO2 VS Argon/CO2 mix while ferrous steel

    For years I used strictly 75/25% mix, always heard of bad welds from straight CO2 gas. When I finally went into the local university to get some credentials (helped with insurance and credentials for getting clients) I saw they only use CO2. The head guy said it was for budget reasons. Anyway passed my cert plates with straight CO2 and the welds look great. A little dark when finished as they lack the argon cleaning bennifits but nothing a little wire brush can't clean right up. So when my 150 mix bottle ran out last month, I went down to the local AirGas to get some more inert gas. I owned my bottle, and a refil once all the costs were paid was going to be $83. I then asked about a 35# bottle of straight CO2. a 35# bottle of straight CO2 has considerable more volume of actual usable gas than a 150 argon bottle. Anyway the straight CO2 was only $34. AirGas let me swap my argon bottle for a CO2 one, and I was out the door. The only modification you need to do to your Mig is to change the regulator out from an argon one to a CO2 one as the fittings are not the same. They do make an adapter that will allow you to use your argon regulator which I bought since it was only $15. I have since built an 8x12 trailer, and some other small projects using straight CO2 and it works great. My only problem is when hitting it hard my argon regulator gets cold and has stuck once. I am told a straight CO2 regulator will not do this. I have one on order from Ebay - costed me about $50 deliverd. So if I had to do it over again I would have just bought a CO2 regulator up front to save some cash in the long run.

    My advise is give it a try for yourself. It cut my gas costs by over half and that means more money in my pocket. My welds to wet in fine and look iditentical to the ones I made with the mix in the past. I will post some picts of the welds on the trailer tomorrow. Heck, I may even weld up a demo plate as I have some scrap lying about.

    I hope this was helpful. Wish someone would have given me the straight along time ago on gas as I would have saved a lot of money over the years.
    _________________________________________
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska View Post
    For years I used strictly 75/25% mix, always heard of bad welds from straight CO2 gas. When I finally went into the local university to get some credentials (helped with insurance and credentials for getting clients) I saw they only use CO2. The head guy said it was for budget reasons. Anyway passed my cert plates with straight CO2 and the welds look great. A little dark when finished as they lack the argon cleaning bennifits but nothing a little wire brush can't clean right up. So when my 150 mix bottle ran out last month, I went down to the local AirGas to get some more inert gas. I owned my bottle, and a refil once all the costs were paid was going to be $83. I then asked about a 35# bottle of straight CO2. a 35# bottle of straight CO2 has considerable more volume of actual usable gas than a 150 argon bottle. Anyway the straight CO2 was only $34. AirGas let me swap my argon bottle for a CO2 one, and I was out the door. The only modification you need to do to your Mig is to change the regulator out from an argon one to a CO2 one as the fittings are not the same. They do make an adapter that will allow you to use your argon regulator which I bought since it was only $15. I have since built an 8x12 trailer, and some other small projects using straight CO2 and it works great. My only problem is when hitting it hard my argon regulator gets cold and has stuck once. I am told a straight CO2 regulator will not do this. I have one on order from Ebay - costed me about $50 deliverd. So if I had to do it over again I would have just bought a CO2 regulator up front to save some cash in the long run.

    My advise is give it a try for yourself. It cut my gas costs by over half and that means more money in my pocket. My welds to wet in fine and look iditentical to the ones I made with the mix in the past. I will post some picts of the welds on the trailer tomorrow. Heck, I may even weld up a demo plate as I have some scrap lying about.

    I hope this was helpful. Wish someone would have given me the straight along time ago on gas as I would have saved a lot of money over the years.
    Have been Mig Welding/Mild Steel Plate/Stainless Steel for over 35years With Sraight CO2.
    No Probs.
    Scotty


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  3. #3
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    I understood straight CO2 would work well on heavier plate, and that Ar/CO2 was required for thinner lighter materials. If you get a chance to post demo pics of CO2 on your scrap plate, would you mind running a test on lighter material too?
    DaveO
    Oxweld oxy acet gear
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  4. #4

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    Straight Co2, Mix 92/8,Stargon ( 98% Ar, 8% Co2, 2% O2 ) or 75/25 what i currently use at home will work.We started with straight C02 ( Leaves small shinny droplets on your weld that will clean off) at our manufacturing plant in the early 1970's and worked our way up to the Stargon product thru the late 80's,it worked well for our high speed spray arc W/.045 solid wire and 1/16" & 5/64" flux core machines on different applications it also minimized the gray brown smoke film known as tenacious soil that collected around the weld edges.This helped in prep work before painting as cleanup was easier.The Stargon mix product also produced less smoke in the plant.
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  5. #5

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    We went with Stargon a couple years ago. Not sure if a PraxAir thing or not, but that is where we get it normally and WSI for the 75/25 (they do not have it and I have one rental from them). We prefer the stargon as well. I think it was in the mid $50 range last bottle, a 250. So price is not too bad.

    $83 for a 75/25 150 would tick me off big time.
    Mike R.
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  6. #6
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    Welcome to my world. Shiping cost is out of control up here as well as everything else. At least diesel is back under 4 bucks a gallon - for now at least!
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  7. #7

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    How about $80 for a 125.... I called around today and can get a 330 filled for $75 at a supplier just south of me..... Add in the $65 a year for rent and it is still cheaper even if I don't get it filled but once a year....
    Everlast PowerTig 200DX
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  8. #8
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    I found these two welds lying about in the shop, one is a 3/8" plate 2g and the other is an 11 or 12ga 3f. Hope the 11 or 12ga is thin enough for you DaveO, I do not do many sheetmetal projects.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just remember to clen the welds with a wire brush - I use a 4.5" grinder with wire wheel installed and it cleans right up in seconds.

    Hope this is helpful.
    _________________________________________
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  9. #9

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    hey i am getting a bottle of co2 that way i can make my own soda plus mig weld
    EVERLAST 250 EX , EVERLAST I-MIG 205 , EVERLAST spool gun NOW have 2 EVERLAST POWER PLASMA 50 plasma cutter's , LINCOLN 175HD MIG WELDER , VICTOR TORCH SET and many more tools to many to list

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodsmachineshop View Post
    hey i am getting a bottle of co2 that way i can make my own soda plus mig weld
    My favorite is to make carbonated grapes.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rambozo View Post
    My favorite is to make carbonated grapes.
    I'm with you Ram.

    Talking about CO2. Ironically I have an aluminum tank, looks like about an 80CF someone gave me thinking it was a welding tank. CO2 valve is non-standard far as gauges. It has a soda logo company on the side too.

    Rod you want it? Pay shipping or take a vacation in SE Florida and it is yours. hahaha.. It is set for soda and I know you can adapt it for MIG too. Add a Y connector.
    Mike R.
    Email: admineverlast@everlastwelders.com
    www.everlastgenerators.com
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    877-755-9353 x203
    M-F 12 - 7PM PST
    FYI: PP50, PP80, IMIG-200, IMIG-250P, 210EXT and 255EXT.

  12. #12
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    I have used both and for short cicuit trasfer I think it is 90% as good if not almost the same. Once you get to globular and spray transer 22 volts and up it starts having a spattery arc and argon fixes that. Here's some shots of a couple test plate I welder yesterday in class....both 100% CO2 Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Johnson; 01-24-2013 at 02:49 PM. Reason: spelling

  13. #13
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    Geeez I need to learn to type! Anyway here is a Vertical down test I did today using 100% CO2. ALso just to not confuse anyone from my last post. You can't to spray x-fer with 100% co2. You need a mix of at least 75% argon, but that is still to low. 80% is the min starting point most use for spray x-fer and 92% makes the arc more stable an you can use less voltage and amps getting same results. Only problem with spray is the deep penitration and big puddle weld deposit rate, but on thick stuff it really kicks but.Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson View Post
    Geeez I need to learn to type! Anyway here is a Vertical down test I did today using 100% CO2. ALso just to not confuse anyone from my last post. You can't to spray x-fer with 100% co2. You need a mix of at least 75% argon, but that is still to low. 80% is the min starting point most use for spray x-fer and 92% makes the arc more stable an you can use less voltage and amps getting same results. Only problem with spray is the deep penitration and big puddle weld deposit rate, but on thick stuff it really kicks but.Click image for larger version. 

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    Spell Check would be nice on the forum I have to keep check with the wife if it is spelt right or not. reason (penitration spell check penetration)

    Good welds with Co2.
    Last edited by Kempy; 01-25-2013 at 05:23 PM. Reason: forgot
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kempy View Post
    Spell Check would be nice on the forum I have to keep check with the wife if it is spelt right or not. reason (penitration spell check penetration)
    You can often enable spell check in the browser, either through a setting or plugin. Google Chrome is my favorite for this as it handles spell checking in almost any web form.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  16. #16

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    A note about spray transfer. You actually need LESS than 20% CO2. A 75/25 mixture yields anything but satisfactory results with spray...too high of voltage requirement.

    For the best test, you should do a vertical UP test since vertical downs are typically frowned upon unless you are "zipping" things together in a cheap trailer plant somewhere throwing together thin tubing...running it hot.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rambozo View Post
    You can often enable spell check in the browser, either through a setting or plugin. Google Chrome is my favorite for this as it handles spell checking in almost any web form.
    Well I found it, it was on but it is not as nice as in Microsoft Office it fixes the words as you typing it. But IE dose the job anyway you just have to tell it to check after you are finished typing.
    Thanks Rambozo
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson View Post
    I have used both and for short cicuit trasfer I think it is 90% as good if not almost the same. Once you get to globular and spray transer 22 volts and up it starts having a spattery arc and argon fixes that. Here's some shots of a couple test plate I welder yesterday in class....both 100% CO2
    I really like the straight CO2 for thicker materials too (and don't notice much difference with the end result). At my previous employer's HVAC fab shop, we used CO2 strictly as a backup anytime we'd run out of the 75/25 mix. When welding thinner metals like 16 or 18ga. rooftop or grease duct, I always noticed an increased presence of dingleberries (splatter) around the weld that didn't seem to be there when I'd weld thicker materials (say 3/8" thick, for example). Regardless of the angle used, travel speed, machine settings (etc), the duct always required some quick clean up with a flap disc before spraying the galvanized coating on....But crank up the heat and all of the sudden the weld area was much cleaner.
    Andy
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