wide etching on aluminum

[johnson697]

was welding on some 5052 .100 aluminum with #6 gas lense and got some wide etching ,frosting effect on the edges on the welds , but the weld looks great.

[everlastsupport]

What was the balance set at?

[cbmkr]

I had the same problem AC Balance is a little high, the frost is the cleaning action,Balance can be lowered on clean material and you will have little or no frost or etching.

[johnson697]

around 9 oclock position but then i started to urn it up and down with little difference in the etching,does the gas lense have anything to do with this ,not a standard lens.

[performance]

Etching also can be caused by moving too slowly with too little amperage to get the heat into the metal quickly. If we exaggerate it for the purose of demonstration, an arc held at 10 amps in the same spot on thick aluminum will grow a wide etch zone regardless of where the balance is set.

To see if the balance is working, turn the balance up to 60% and see if the tungsten is balling. In fact, you should get some around 40-50% Do you have the EX? If so, go to about 20%. On the other models just set it at the minimum setting of 30%.

[johnson697]

Yes it did ball up,and yes i do have the ex.Had my amps around 180,but not sure how much i was actually using while i was welding but i would guess around 110 to 130 amps because i was only using a little over half of my pedal while i was welding .Had a guy i work with tell me to take off the gas lens and use a standard lens ,gonna try that tommorrow.

[zoama]

Yes it did ball up,and yes i do have the ex.Had my amps around 180,but not sure how much i was actually using while i was welding but i would guess around 110 to 130 amps because i was only using a little over half of my pedal while i was welding .Had a guy i work with tell me to take off the gas lens and use a standard lens ,gonna try that tommorrow.

The gas lens has nothing to do with etching.

[fdcmiami]

The gas lens has nothing to do with etching.

anyone welding for 12 years and claiming to have welded some of the fuel tanks shown in the photos would know that.

[johnson697]

anyone welding for 12 years and claiming to have welded some of the fuel tanks shown in the photos would know that.

been welding for 14 yrs.and tig welded for about 12.ill post some pics of the wide etching of the tanks.and not everyones knows all about welding ,thats why i get on here and ask,not looking for someoneto criticize me or call me lair.

[johnson697]

you can also check out some more tanks at dadscustomintercoolertanks.com

[performance]

At what point was it balling? Balling is a indicator of cleaning action, as more heat is forced on the tungsten in DC+, which is the cleaning stage of the cycle. IF you were getting balling at a minimum setting of 10% or even 30% then there may be an issue, but if it is up around 40-50% when balling occurs, then it is working as it should, and the etching is an environemental or operational issue.

[fdcmiami]

you can also check out some more tanks at dadscustomintercoolertanks.com

....coolertank.com

since i have spent, off and on, about 20 years in the vicinity of marina mile in ft lauderdale, 17th street causeway, and in and out of shops south of state road 84, east of 95, i have had the opportunity to see many quality tanks built. for the most part and i mean almost all, (granted we are in a marine environment) they are fabricated of 5052 H32, 5083 and 5086 sheet.

not to say that 6061 is not used but it just does not have the formability characteristics of the 5xxx series and in the t6 condition requires a minimum bend radius of at least 2t to guard against fractures on the bend line. the tanks pictured are very well done, the welding looks excellent but beyond that they are nothing special and nothing that you can't see on a regular basis in south florida. also, i would like to point out that tanks are fabricated of equal quality using transformer machines whose date of manufacture more than likely predates your date of birth.

etching, or what otherwise is known as the heat affected zone (HAZ) is a pretty common topic of discussion due to the fact that minimizing it is a way to insure that your tank is less likely to have a failure in that area. so, for someone to state, and also to ask some of the questions you have posed, that they are unfamiliar with the subject after 14 years of welding seems quite a stretch. in fact the more you post the bigger the stretch, at least to me, it seems.

good luck on your sale of the ex; learning to be flexible when trying to make a sale is something that comes with experience.

[DaveO]

Did this post include photos at one point?

[johnson697]

....coolertank.com

since i have spent, off and on, about 20 years in the vicinity of marina mile in ft lauderdale, 17th street causeway, and in and out of shops south of state road 84, east of 95, i have had the opportunity to see many quality tanks built. for the most part and i mean almost all, (granted we are in a marine environment) they are fabricated of 5052 H32, 5083 and 5086 sheet.

not to say that 6061 is not used but it just does not have the formability characteristics of the 5xxx series and in the t6 condition requires a minimum bend radius of at least 2t to guard against fractures on the bend line. the tanks pictured are very well done, the welding looks excellent but beyond that they are nothing special and nothing that you can't see on a regular basis in south florida. also, i would like to point out that tanks are fabricated of equal quality using transformer machines whose date of manufacture more than likely predates your date of birth.

etching, or what otherwise is known as the heat affected zone (HAZ) is a pretty common topic of discussion due to the fact that minimizing it is a way to insure that your tank is less likely to have a failure in that area. so, for someone to state, and also to ask some of the questions you have posed, that they are unfamiliar with the subject after 14 years of welding seems quite a stretch. in fact the more you post the bigger the stretch, at least to me, it seems.

good luck on your sale of the ex; learning to be flexible when trying to make a sale is something that comes with experience.

just gonna STRETCH the truth a little further the job i have worked at for 12 yrs. now never had a requirement of keeping etching down to a minimum as far as a visual apperance because the welds were ground off and the whole box had a grain we did with a huge belt sander, they were electrical boxes ,but now that i am doing this on the side i want to make it the best in apperance and make the customer as happy as i can for repeat buisness .

[johnson697]

No i havent posted pics on these tanks yet ,i will this weekend.

[johnson697]

I dont think there is an issue with the machine ,the balling of the tungsten was around 50-60 %.

[Rambozo]

just gonna STRETCH the truth a little further the job i have worked at for 12 yrs. now never had a requirement of keeping etching down to a minimum as far as a visual apperance because the welds were ground off and the whole box had a grain we did with a huge belt sander, they were electrical boxes ,but now that i am doing this on the side i want to make it the best in apperance and make the customer as happy as i can for repeat buisness .

There is no magic setting to achieve what you want. It is a combination of techniques and wave shape that determines how that happens. It helps to know the theory behind what is happening during the weld process, as it's much faster than you can see. There are many good books on metallurgy and welding, and also a ton of white papers on the Lincoln Electric site. Just search for "cathodic etching" to learn about what is happening, and why. Once you know what all the controls of each welding machine do to the wave shape and how that impacts what you are after, you will be able to tailor the machine settings to your technique and the job, to achieve the best appearance, strength and corrosion resistance of your welds. Some people pick this up by experience, some by researching and reading, and some need to be taught. Everyone learns differently and I'm sure you know what works best for you.

[performance]

A point of order. The HAZ and etching are not the same thing. In fact a wide etch zone can be made with very little heat indeed. HAZ is more to do with the granular growth/changes in the metal along the edge of the melted area.

[performance]

Here's a point you can experiment yourself to see where the problem may be. Take some metal, turn amps down to about 20 or so, and crank the balance up and slowly go over a piece of metal. As you move along, increase speed to see where the etching width is decreased. If you cannot get it to decrease, then begin to crank the balance down until you barely get any etching as you move along. Then, try the 1 amp per .001" of metal thickness rule. Set your freq for about 120.

[fdcmiami]

A point of order. The HAZ and etching are not the same thing. In fact a wide etch zone can be made with very little heat indeed. HAZ is more to do with the granular growth/changes in the metal along the edge of the melted area.

you are right and i should not have casually thrown that out there. an irregular etch zone can be an indicator of a potential problem in the haz but it is not in any way definitive.