pp256 on a cnc plmas table

[cdale2002]

im hoping someone can tell me if its safe to use my powerpro 256 on a cnc plasma table. I know the HF start seems to be the biggest concern based on the research ive done. Im planning to run it on a viper plasma table and im in the process of try to get a hold of viper to get an answer from them so i figured in the mean time id try to get an answer from here. is there a way to make it work or am i wasting my time and buy a dedicated machine for cnc. any help is greatly apperciated.

[SeanMurphy265]

This link would be a good start from acourtjester

[cdale2002]

Thanks and yeah it was very informative but i didnt see him do anything about the hf part. Maybe im just worrying about something thats not a big deal. I got a hold of viper plasma and they recommended to ground the powerpro to a 5/8 copper ground only a few feet away from the table and put a surge protector on the computer just to be safe. I did like acourtjesters modded plasma torch. any other suggestions? How about cutting aluminum and stainless steel on an inert gas of sorts?

[Rambozo]

Be aware of the lower duty cycle of the multi process machines. As long as you are doing short runs and lower amps, you should be ok, but typically CNC duty requires you to downrate even a dedicated machine. Something to keep in mind. You can always start with the 256 and grow into a dedicated machine as your use increases. That was my original plan. Also the newer PP256's no longer have the CNC port, so a few signals are not available easily.

[cdale2002]

does the machine shut itself down when the duty cycle has been exceeded like some machines? never been able t push it hard or long enough to find out. But yeah thats was kinda the plan was to use it for a few months to get started then buy a dedicated machine because it tig welds so nice once setup properly. it suprises alot of people how well it welds for the price. IMO it welds as well or better than the big name brands. i have expierence from using the syncrowaves, dynastys, lincolns, even a fronius tig. Never tried esab and would love to. But my absolute favorite welder is believe it or not is the htp 201, welds so nice and smooth. Im not ragging on any of the machines or everlast. just so u guys know lol

[zoama]

CNC duty requires you to downrate even a dedicated machine.

I read that in another thread but I don't understand why it is. If a machine has a 60% duty cycle at 60 amps why would the torch being moved by a robotic arm change that ? Someone please alleviate my ignorance.

[Rambozo]

There is a light that comes on and it shuts down the output when the heatsink sensor reaches a set limit. However, this is not a true duty cycle measurement, so you should keep track of on time and rest periods when doing something like CNC. The nice thing about CNC is that you will know the exact runtime for the program and can program in the rest periods. Another user recently found that even though he never hit the duty cycle limit, after a very extended job, something happened to the machine. Although from his descriptions he massively exceeded the duty cycle.

[Rambozo]

I read that in another thread but I don't understand why it is. If a machine has a 60% duty cycle at 60 amps why would the torch being moved by a robotic arm change that ? Someone please alleviate my ignorance.

If you really time each cut and stay within the duty cycle, technically you don't have to derate. But most people will want the CNC to run without programmed delays to cover the duty cycle limitations. Whereas manual cutting tends to have natural break points that give the machine adequate rest periods. Of course you could do hand work that goes non-stop, or have a CNC that makes short cuts then has long delays to unload and reload material, but the reverse is usually the case.

[performance]

DO NOT use the 256 on CNC. Period. Even if the older ones had a CNC port...do not.

[cdale2002]

may i ask why not use the 256 on a cnc? just curious and educate me as why. i obviously know you guys have a machine ready for

[cdale2002]

also if u compare duty cycle to duty cyle on the 256 to the 60c there i dentical according to your guys advertised specs. So i dont see any issues with the duty cycles. ive already talked to the plasma table company and they said there no problem for the use of the 256 other than grounding because of the high frequency

[performance]

Quite simple. The unit is not designed for it. The unit is meant to be a carry-all unit to go anywhere a repair is needed or when space is a consideration for the casual shop. The duty cycle is 35%, and the plasma is for secondary to the TIG. It is not meant for manufacturing, or fabrication. The plasma is considered the "secondary" function of the unit...and not meant to be the primary one. The performance difference on the 256 and 60C is also vastly different. Piercing time, cutting speed etc are different, even if duty cycle and cutting thickness "show" about the same. About 70% of those that try to use a high freq plasma on CNC fail to get them to perform without blowing up their CNC units. And the remaining 30% from my experience are not satisfied.

You could ask what the difference between a hammer and a nail gun are. Both are spec'd to drive nails on paper. Both in the end get the job done, but the design, and the way they accomplish it are different, and the one you'd want to use every day all day would be different than if you need to drive just a hand full of nails.

[cdale2002]

im not argueing the fact its not the ideal machine as i said id get a dedicated machine designed for it, this is just to get by for a few months. heck id love t set it up with a a hy definition plas but not in the budget as of now. i guess ur guys advertised spec are blown out of reality because your online specs claim 60% for PAC and u may wanna have that corrected because thats faulty information just to sell the unit.

[sportbike]

I've never really bough into the "rating" of equipment. As exemplified by the comments in this thread, they are pretty much just for sales, and not really based on any standards.

Similar to air compressors that are rated at 5hp and have a 120v plug on them...

I guess it should say "60% duty cycle for a single 10 minute period"

I can't imagine a multi-process machine would be as good as a single process machine unless the specs were fairly low, or the machine was large enough to house everything really needed inside. That said, the sales pitches made by most companies seldom relate to reality and the consumer really needs to do his own research before making a purchase.

[performance]

Cdale, your argument isn't making sense to me, when you can get a dedicated cutter designed for CNC use for way less that will last you such as the 60C that is designed for it. You don't understand the logic of duty cycle. The unit has a 60% duty cycle on the plasma, but in reality, that duty cycle has nothing to do with regularity of use. The duty cycle is related to thermal build up of heat, not component design.

We've been very careful about our "pitch" on the combination units. Please read the difference. It takes comparative analysis, and critical thinking, sometimes to see the difference, but we are not in any campaign to misrepresent the abilities or purpose of this unit. In fact, we've actually revised things in the past that were getting misunderstood about the applications of this type unit. The 256 works as we advertise. It's a tool designed for a certain job. Don't ask a nice multi -tool such as a leatherman to be your main or only tool in your tool box even IF they give a life time guarantee and make it out of the highest quality alloy available.

[cdale2002]

im not saying ur 35% duty cylce statements wrong. But to a point duty cyle is duty cyle based on a 10 minute period with so much cool down time. Then shouldnt the machine technically be advertised as a 35% duty cycle vs 60 because thats a significant difference in time. I also know there better cnc capable plasma cutters than the 60c which we r considering getting in a few months t replace the 256.

[cdale2002]

also performance keep in mind im not buying a 256 for cnc use as ive had this machine since 2010

[performance]

Cdale...at least that point is clear now, you already have a machine. But, Again, the issue is not the duty cycle but rather what we plan as the typical application of the unit of a long period of time. The TIG is 35% and the plasma is 60%. The difference is that the unit is designed for thermal cutout when the heat sink reaches a specific temperature. This is where the rating is set based off of typical planned use. If the units duty cycle is maintained according to the planned use of the unit, then everything is fine.

The 60C is a great unit for CNC and we have many satisfied customers with it. There may be better, but the price is a good price, especially for the performance and lifespan.

[cdale2002]

yes i already had the machine. I guess i should have said that earlier and no hard feelings about. But either way i love the way it welds and the plasma option to me was just a bonus.

[Rectified]

Quite simple. The unit is not designed for it. The unit is meant to be a carry-all unit to go anywhere a repair is needed or when space is a consideration for the casual shop. The duty cycle is 35%, and the plasma is for secondary to the TIG. It is not meant for manufacturing, or fabrication. The plasma is considered the "secondary" function of the unit...and not meant to be the primary one. The performance difference on the 256 and 60C is also vastly different. Piercing time, cutting speed etc are different, even if duty cycle and cutting thickness "show" about the same. About 70% of those that try to use a high freq plasma on CNC fail to get them to perform without blowing up their CNC units. And the remaining 30% from my experience are not satisfied.

You could ask what the difference between a hammer and a nail gun are. Both are spec'd to drive nails on paper. Both in the end get the job done, but the design, and the way they accomplish it are different, and the one you'd want to use every day all day would be different than if you need to drive just a hand full of nails.

Great stuff but man have you picked up the 256 lately that bad boy is 70lbs to be carry all. just sharpshooting about that. I used the 256 in the garage and that bad boy stayed on the cart with wheels.