Finally welded with the new TIG...kinda

[youngnstudly]

So I managed to get my welder going this morning but I have an issue (or 5). I only ran 2 beads (fusion welds) on some thin wall 1.5" square tubing after tacking some miters together, and every time I light up, the arc gets very erratic for a few seconds before smoothing out. I can taper the current down to nothing and it does so quite nicely, but the start ups are killing me (well, technically the tungsten). I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but the display reads "004" while the machine is idling and none of the adjustments, knobs, or settings will change the display. I did give it a full throttle "blast" (quickly) and the machine acted as it should. I started off at 6 L/min. on the regulator (straight Argon), the torch is hooked to the (-) terminal, the ground to the (+), there are no shielding gas leaks from what I can tell, post flow is set to 5 seconds, and I have finely pointed 3/32" 2% thoriated tungsten installed. On the second bead, I increased the gas flow to 11 L/min. just to see if I had a lack of shielding gas, and there wasn't really a difference in the arc start.

My second issue is that the old backup helmet I borrowed from my Pops has like a #6 shade in it and I almost blinded myself while trying to see if the welder worked. I remembered my cheap Auto darkening helmet from HF wouldn't work (after reading about the topic on here), and pulsing the pedal manually just made the helmet "flicker" wildly. I need to get a few new lens for the old helmet today before doing more testing. I haven't tried it in stick mode yet since I didn't want to blind myself. My eyes were acting goofy for 10 minutes after that last bead!

Does anyone see anything seemingly obvious that I'm missing here, or does this sound like I have an issue with the machine? Even on the thin wall tubing with a fair gap (the width of two saw blades), I felt in control the entire time even without using filler rod. Like I said, I was moving quickly in order to not go blind! I wanted to make sure I didn't have something wrong (operator error) before contacting Everlast...It's a holiday regardless, so they probably won't get back to me until tomorrow since they are enjoying the day off. BTW, happy New Year to all the Everlast forumians!

[zoama]

Fusion welds generally need a very tight fit. Try running a bead on a single piece of flat stock and see how that goes.

[youngnstudly]

It's no different on a single piece. I did the full throttle weld and pulsing on a piece of 1/4" material and the arc was very erratic for the first few seconds. The fusion welds were otherwise very smooth and the arc was mellow and stable. I've never gotten a clean arc start with this machine out of the 8 tack welds I did, and the 3 or 4 beads I've run. The display still reads "004" and I was a$$-u-me-ing that is not normal for an Everlast 160 STH. I figured that the display would read the number of amps the dial was set to, but it doesn't.

I forgot to mention in my first post that when I unplugged the machine after using it, I heard a single faint "click" after the machine's plug was pulled from the wall receptacle. I was already 99% sure my issues were the fault of the machine (the digital display reading was the biggest giveaway), but after Mark reminded me that I didn't register in time for the 30 day warranty, I didn't want to think about having to send the machine back, or having to pay for an expensive repair (plus shipping both ways). In reality, the display being screwy and the wild arc starts are the only issues I've seen with this unit (and I could almost tolerate both issues since everything else seems to work okay...but deep down, I know something isn't right and that bothers the heck out of me. Plus I got busy and too disgusted to try stick welding today, so that may or may not perform as it should.

I'll have to contact Everlast tomorrow and see what news that brings. Probably an electrical issue or component inside the machine (hopefully something inexpensive!). I was hoping someone on here would have something magical to say that would bring me a sense of relief until tomorrow, but I should know better than that at this stage of my life! Thanks for the response.

[Rambozo]

Unplug the pedal and then see if the amp control changes the display. I believe that is normal behavior for that machine as the pedal takes over full amperage control, when it's plugged in. As to the arc starts, you might be having a little trouble from the initial blast of argon. There are a few things you can do to minimize this, like using a short thin rigid hose between the regulator and the machine. But as a test, tap the pedal while the tungsten is away from the metal to start the argon, then move into position while the post flow is going and restart the arc during that time. Also the tungsten does have to heat up a little before the arc will run smooth at super low amps. It just takes practice. Get a better helmet right away, you are only making things much harder on yourself. You can try changing the settings on your HF helmet. I have one that works fine on DC TIG, but another that doesn't stay dark so YMMV.

[youngnstudly]

Unplug the pedal and then see if the amp control changes the display. I believe that is normal behavior for that machine as the pedal takes over full amperage control, when it's plugged in. As to the arc starts, you might be having a little trouble from the initial blast of argon. There are a few things you can do to minimize this, like using a short thin rigid hose between the regulator and the machine. But as a test, tap the pedal while the tungsten is away from the metal to start the argon, then move into position while the post flow is going and restart the arc during that time. Also the tungsten does have to heat up a little before the arc will run smooth at super low amps. It just takes practice. Get a better helmet right away, you are only making things much harder on yourself. You can try changing the settings on your HF helmet. I have one that works fine on DC TIG, but another that doesn't stay dark so YMMV.

Thank you for the insight Rambozo. I didn't realize you responded while I was typing. I will try unplugging the pedal and hopefully that will change the display. I have never had to do the pedal tapping trick (for pre flow) but you could certainly be right about the gas flow. I have a super fine needle 3/8" point on the tungsten (nothing new, just how I was taught to sharpen a tungsten). For what it's worth, I just got back from spending my $175 in gift cards (X-mas presents from family). I bought a $32 Lincoln standard helmet with the larger window, plus some other smaller replacement lens for the old helmet my father has (my back up helmet). He's an old (nearly blind/mostly deaf) body and paint guy, so to make welding inside of tight dark spaces (like inside wheel wells) easy, the body shop guys have a trick of using lighter lens for spot welding etc. No wonder they're blind!

Plus I bought the clamps and misc junk to go with my new helmet (see pic). The HF helmet doesn't even work if I pulse the pedal, it just clicks on and off....sort of like welding while being at a rave! Otherwise it just stays off during welding and your eyes hurt afterwards.

[performance]

When the pedal is plugged in you have full range of amp control. The panel knob becomes irrelevant. Likely you are starting too slowly or softly not getting enough rotation on the pedal to meet the minimum start amperage of around 10. The display will show actual output while you are welding. But it sounds as if things are normal otherwise. Yes, tapping the pedal for preflow stabilizing of the gas will help.

[youngnstudly]

It sounds like I will have to play around some more tomorrow and see if I can get the problem (rough arc starts) to disappear. It did dawn on me to check the amp setting while welding, but I figured it would be better to have another person to check that while I welded a full bead by varying the amperage a bit (only my yellow lab was present last night). On the 1/4" material I welded, I thought I was pretty "heavy" (generous) on the pedal when starting the arc, yet it did the same thing on that material too. I'll venture into it a little more tomorrow and come back with a followup report. Thanks again for all the replies and ideas. I appreciate it, and I'm glad to hear that I might simply need to get better acquainted with my new welder to eliminate the issue.

[zoama]

(only my yellow lab was present last night).

Don't let your dog look at the arc (dogs will stare at it), it damages their eyes just like ours.

[Jason]

The HF helmet doesn't even work if I pulse the pedal, it just clicks on and off....sort of like welding while being at a rave! Otherwise it just stays off during welding and your eyes hurt afterwards.

Sounds like you need a better helmet. I started with one of those cheap HF helmets and had a hard time with vision and my eyes. My Miller helmet darkens just by tapping the pedal without even starting an arc. The HF I used seem to darken pretty well.

[fdcmiami]

you could try more time welding and less time writing. see how that works. i would like to see that fuse welded miter with two saw blades worth of gap; quite a trick there. you didn't include contaminated argon in any of your posts, may as well throw that in.

[sw2x]

I was taught to set your amps to about 1.5X what you think you'll need to weld, and when starting the arc to push the pedal down 3/4 briefly to get the puddle started and back off until you get the right amount of penetration/puddle size and start moving and dipping. I believe this to be the best technique for most welding, Welding in AC on Aluminum I only slap it down about 1/2 and bring the amperage up so it has time to break up the oxides before the puddle fully forms.

Are you sure what your seeing is the arc wandering or is it the HF start arcs jumping around. Are you using the work clamp directly on the metal or through a table? If it's through a table, is the table clean where your work clamp is attached. Is the connection between the work peice and the table clean? I've found that not having a solid connection can definitely cause the arc to have a hard time starting, you'll see the HF arcs jumping all over the place but the actual arc doesn't start for a while.

Are you using a dedicated stone for grinding tungsten, as using a stone that's been used for grinding anything else will impregnate the tungsten with whatever you ground and can cause arc wandering at low amperages. If when grinding the tungsten it jumps and scratches the side of the tungsten you will have to grind till the scratch is ground out otherwise you can get some wild arcs jumping all over the place.

Try pushing the pedal down with the torch in free air away from any metal. Does the argon flow make a loud swoosh and then calm down into a steady flow? If so you could have a problem with the regulator having to high of an output pressure or even a restriction in the torch or hose causing your arc to wander. May have to up the preflow a bit until you can remedy the issue.

So many variables to work through.

I found that my torch was restricting the flow of argon and would cause a big woosh of gas flow before slowing down to a even flo and I had to up t
he preflow to 5seconds to even it out and got a more stable arc. A couple weeks ago I replaced the stock torches with CK torches and no longer have that problem, I was able to drop the preflow back down to a more reasonable rate.

Also if your not already, USE A GAS LENS!!! They are very cheap on weldingcity.com and make a huge difference in the smooth flow of argon and will sheild your weld much better.

Disclaimer... I am not a professional welder, just a hobby welder but this has been my experience.

[youngnstudly]

I was taught to set your amps to about 1.5X what you think you'll need to weld, and when starting the arc to push the pedal down 3/4 briefly to get the puddle started and back off until you get the right amount of penetration/puddle size and start moving and dipping. I believe this to be the best technique for most welding, Welding in AC on Aluminum I only slap it down about 1/2 and bring the amperage up so it has time to break up the oxides before the puddle fully forms.

Are you sure what your seeing is the arc wandering or is it the HF start arcs jumping around. Are you using the work clamp directly on the metal or through a table? If it's through a table, is the table clean where your work clamp is attached. Is the connection between the work peice and the table clean? I've found that not having a solid connection can definitely cause the arc to have a hard time starting, you'll see the HF arcs jumping all over the place but the actual arc doesn't start for a while.

Are you using a dedicated stone for grinding tungsten, as using a stone that's been used for grinding anything else will impregnate the tungsten with whatever you ground and can cause arc wandering at low amperages. If when grinding the tungsten it jumps and scratches the side of the tungsten you will have to grind till the scratch is ground out otherwise you can get some wild arcs jumping all over the place.

Try pushing the pedal down with the torch in free air away from any metal. Does the argon flow make a loud swoosh and then calm down into a steady flow? If so you could have a problem with the regulator having to high of an output pressure or even a restriction in the torch or hose causing your arc to wander. May have to up the preflow a bit until you can remedy the issue.

So many variables to work through.

I found that my torch was restricting the flow of argon and would cause a big woosh of gas flow before slowing down to a even flo and I had to up t
he preflow to 5seconds to even it out and got a more stable arc. A couple weeks ago I replaced the stock torches with CK torches and no longer have that problem, I was able to drop the preflow back down to a more reasonable rate.

Also if your not already, USE A GAS LENS!!! They are very cheap on weldingcity.com and make a huge difference in the smooth flow of argon and will sheild your weld much better.

Disclaimer... I am not a professional welder, just a hobby welder but this has been my experience.

Thank you for your input sw2x. I am using a brand new grinding wheel on my bench grinder for sharpening the tungsten, and the wheel is pretty coarse (it leaves grinding marks), but I haven't noticed the arc wandering much. I am grinding the tungsten "with the grain" vertically (against the grinding wheel). I do notice a "swoosh" noise when I first hit the pedal, but a few of the replies above suggested tapping the pedal before starting my arc, and that seemed to help a lot (I guess by letting the gas flow hit a steady pace without that "burst" of gas in the beginning). My issue was always the rough (HF) arc starts in the beginning of the weld.

My Everlast welder is the basic DC only model (the poor person's welder!-haha) so I don't have the ability to set pre flow, set amps with the foot pedal plugged in, or switch to A/C for welding Magnesium or aluminum. I have a 30"x30" piece of 1/4" thick aluminum that I'm using for my welding surface, and it's very clean. I have been switching the ground clamp to my workpieces, then back to the aluminum surface if I can't get my weld metal to sit flat.

I have to admit that you and Rambozo both suggested that I use the shortest length gas hose possible, but I haven't cut the factory one down much, so there is a few feet of extra. It's not kinked, but it is a little too long. I'm in the middle of finishing the bottle holder part of my welding cart, so I can't mount the bottle just yet (or trim the gas hose).

In another topic on here, a few people suggested that I use a gas lens too. I have yet to order one because I'm trying to get a "real" order established for consumables (saves on shipping). One day hopefully soon, I will get a CK torch with more options, but for now I don't have much issue with the factory one that was supplied (besides the covering on the outside being too stiff).

To update this topic, I did more welding today, and I am certainly getting used to the pedal (and "cleaner" arc starts). I've never used such a bulky pedal, but I like that my foot doesn't slip off so easily. It has a lot more travel than the smaller pedals I've used in the past. I am working on my welding cart and some other (immediately) needed shop items.

Does anyone have any form of a secure holder for grinding tungsten (so you don't have to hold them with your fingers)? I underwent 7-1/2 months of chemotherapy and the result was permanent neuropathy in my hands (numbness, tingling, and severe pain). That makes doing pretty much anything during winter months an unpleasant experience (to say the least). I have noticed more pain from holding the filler rod and sharpening tungsten than when I'm not welding, and I thought I saw a post on one of the welding sites about using the extra torch parts with a custom made holder to secure tungsten during grinding operations....I came up short on my search though. Any help would be appreciated!

[Rambozo]

There are lots of little goodies like this for sharpening.
http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/CSH.html
Of course I could also just do this
http://bit.ly/10RglZJ

I've gotten some little free spinning holders as swag at trade shows, too. Can't say I use them regularly, but As my hands get worse I might start more. I know a lot of people just chuck them up in a small cordless drill to give them a spin while grinding. Another option is using ChemSharp, no twirling required.

[zoama]

Chuck your tungsten up in a cordless drill, spin and sharpen.

[youngnstudly]

you could try more time welding and less time writing. see how that works. i would like to see that fuse welded miter with two saw blades worth of gap; quite a trick there. you didn't include contaminated argon in any of your posts, may as well throw that in.

My 52 posts on here using correct punctuation somehow makes me a writer? In case you've never "mic'd" a used porta-band blade, the one I just measured came to .0177", and the tubing I'm welding has a 1/16" wall thickness. As seen in my fusion pic (which shows the gap you're asking to see), I always stop fusion welding when I know I need to add filler, or if I think there's a chance of burning through the material and I don't have filler handy. Mitering one continuous piece of material and bending it always leaves a gap where the bend takes place. In case you're unaware, the "shakey" fusion weld I posted leaves A LOT to be desired, and I certainly wasn't bragging about it-LOL. I ran a quick bead and posted it on here to show that the welder does in fact work even though I had some issues.

Not everyone can afford to have (or maintain) a fully equipped welding shop, yet guys like me still manage to have fun at home working on inexpensive projects to keep ourselves occupied with minimal tools/equipment. If there's some reason you feel the need to act like a know-it-all, please feel free to do so in the corner by yourself. I'm here to learn and have fun. You're post was less then helpful. Have a nice day.

[Rambozo]

Just relax a bit. fdcmiami was just poking you a bit. You have to admit it did appear that you spent more time writing the posts about your first welds, then the welds themselves probably took. And then jumping right in with comments about how you have to send the machine back with repair and shipping issues. I know you're pumped up a little about getting a TIG machine and want everything to just be perfect, but even a very experienced welder will take a little while to become comfortable with a new machine. You have to learn all the ins and outs. I know they are not the best, but read through the manual a few times, not only for what it says, but what it doesn't say. Become familiar with the control functions and effects.
So basically I think I can paraphrase his post into 3 words: "Settle down, Beavis."

[youngnstudly]

Just relax a bit. fdcmiami was just poking you a bit. You have to admit it did appear that you spent more time writing the posts about your first welds, then the welds themselves probably took. And then jumping right in with comments about how you have to send the machine back with repair and shipping issues. I know you're pumped up a little about getting a TIG machine and want everything to just be perfect, but even a very experienced welder will take a little while to become comfortable with a new machine. You have to learn all the ins and outs. I know they are not the best, but read through the manual a few times, not only for what it says, but what it doesn't say. Become familiar with the control functions and effects.
So basically I think I can paraphrase his post into 3 words: "Settle down, Beavis."

My manual is 3 pages long (plus a factory checklist page) and I've read it 10 times already...there's not much there! As for fdc, I've dealt with more than a few of his "types" in the sheet metal trade and there's a reason I don't hang out at the bar with the loud mouth's and know-it-all's. We don't mesh (in case that wasn't obvious!). Good pep talk though, I'll work on your advice. Thanks again, chucking the tungsten in drill sounds good.

Pic of the "man cave" attached....If you were working in a freezing shop with very little light, you'd spend more time typing online than outside welding too! Besides, I thought everyone bitched about reading messages written by 3rd graders....I guess it's overlooked when you fit in.

[Rambozo]

The paper manuals are a running joke, like the included plug. Download the US written manuals from the website. They are much better, but still a work in progress.

http://www.everlastgenerators.com/manuals.php

That lighting doesn't look too bad. Can you also power up that pair of 8" tubes on the wall?
What doesn't look good, is that 40° under them. Time to set something on fire in there.

[fdcmiami]

thank you; you see studly, i'm not alone in my thinking, just a lot less diplomatic than mr rambozo. by the way, i'd check that mic because i have never heard of a saw blade that is .017 in thk., and i'm still trying to decipher that mitering explanation but it's early, perhaps it will come to me later.

maybe some heavy woolen socks would help.

good luck and happy welding