Suggestions on best fit for the needs of a small operation.

[GV00]

So I'm planning on doing a variety of work, most notably a lot of auto-related welding and cutting in the near future. The big catch is that my garage is only wired for 110, and since I'm renting I'd rather spend the money on tools than upgrading wiring for my landlord. I've got zero welding experience, but I'm hoping to pick it up quick. Future plans include welding various aluminum items I've got, so I'm thinking that means I'll need a TIG unit. I'd like to keep things small if possible, and really like the idea of a single do-all machine, but getting the best bang for my buck and hopefully having something that can weld on beefier stuff once I move out and get a place wired for 220 is important.

So with this in mind, as far as general utility 110/220, what would you guys suggest? At a glance, it doesn't look like there are any TIG/stick/plasma cutter combos that match my needs. TIG's a must, but stick capability seems like a very good idea for bulk work. I'm guessing the plasma cutter will have to be a separate unit. Are there any considerations I need to make (but haven't)?

[Rambozo]

For what you want to do 240V is probably going to be required. Depending on your setup, you might be able to have a 240V outlet put in right near the electrical panel for low cost, then use a 240V extension cord for your welder, to avoid putting in much wiring. 120V units will do fine with sheet metal work like auto body, but if you are talking about thicker items, you will need more power.

[geezer]

It's pretty obvious you are starting from ground zero,,,been there done that as so many have...as I see it,, your main problem is voltage,,,you cannot do much with only a 110 volt garage which probably has only a 15 amp circuit to run the auto door opener and a few lights...plasma requires more plus a compressor,,,doing aluminum with tig requires a fair amount of juice,,,a 110 volt mig still needs to have at least 20+ amps on the 110 line to run properly,,,Soooo,,,get 220 like Rambozo says,,,extension cord or permanent install ....then you aren't limited to your choices of machine and you can get a multi pupose unit,,getting a proper machine will pay off in the long run,,,add a small mig to it and you have it all...keep in mind that at some point you will need a compressor for sanders and all the other air tools in the autobody trade..It took years to accumulate all the stuff I have and I'm still adding to the pile...this hobby stuff isn't cheap and you only want to buy once..

[GV00]

Well, most of what I'll be doing in the near future will be sheet steel or relatively thin aluminum. The garage actually has 60 amp service, but off of an old fuse panel. Getting 240 in would be prohibitively expensive (Somewhere around $800 just for a single outlet), so I'm hoping to do most of the sheet metal work and if I really need more amperage I can run a temporary cable from the house, if I really have to. In the future I'll pay more attention and try to get 240v in the garage, but for now I'd like something that can handle the sheet metal work and such I've got without constantly having to run a line out.

[everlastsupport]

The PA140 or 160STH (stick and TIG) will run on 110volts for sheet metal and light gauge, but you will need more than a 15 amp outlet. I myself would not attempt plasma cutting or MIG on 110volts but it can be done. The Super Cut 50 will run on 110, but you will need an air compressor running with it when the tank empties.

If you go this route, make sure you tell sales you want the 110 volt operation. On some units it is an option.

The others gave you good advice and I also recommend you get a 220vac outlet next to the panel, minimum 30 amps to start. But you can do it on 110.

[EchoSixMike]

I don't have any experience with the 110v plasma cutters, but the 160STH on 115v is certainly adequate for most auto stuff. I would try the 200DX or 185Micro on 115v and a 20amp or better circuit and limit yourself to sheet metal. Get dual voltage units so you're set once you get established. S/F....KenM

[sportbike]

Do you have 220/240 anywhere? Like for a clothes dryer outlet?

Get a new 200DX with dual voltage capability and a 10 ga extension cord to the dryer plug to use when you need to use the higher amps.

I'd forget teh plasma cutter for now in favor of abrasive cutting tools. Unless you are trying to make artwork or fancy curved items, a 110V plasma probably won;t do much more than grinders, saws, and cutoff wheels. A nibbler (although now it seems rearely used) will pretty much do it all for sheetmetal as well

[SeanMurphy265]

The duty cycle for a 110v plasma will be low. I'm not sure what the duty cycle is on a super cut 50 on 110v, but the one time I tried it, it did not take long before the duty cycle light came on. Running on 110v duty cycle will be your enemy. There are several videos on how to add a 220v breaker, and it seems fairly straight forward if you have the space in your breaker box. Your going to be limited running off 110v.

[DaveO]

First off, welcome to the forums, GV00!

Lots of good information here. The world is full of people who come up with reasons to say "no, you can't do that" and this forum is full of people who come up with ways to say "yes, that can be done". I'll jump in with another consideration for you: if a multi-purpose unit fails (it's not likely, but it happens) and has to be sent out for repair then you've lost all the capabilities.

Another source of 220v power is your kitchen: many electric stoves operate on 220v and enough amperage to support your machine. It may not be terribly convenient, but that power source and an extension cord may be an option for you, depending on the layout of your place. One problem with this idea is that it competes for normal operation of your household: I don't get to weld when the dryer is in use, for instance.

[Kempy]

Let see possibility’s for 220V.

1-Hot water heater
2-Electric stove outlet
3-Clothes dryer outlet
4-Electric Furness
5-Heat Pump
6-Base board Heaters some
7- Get a electrician

[geezer]

Well, most of what I'll be doing in the near future will be sheet steel or relatively thin aluminum. The garage actually has 60 amp service, but off of an old fuse panel. Getting 240 in would be prohibitively expensive (Somewhere around $800 just for a single outlet), so I'm hoping to do most of the sheet metal work and if I really need more amperage I can run a temporary cable from the house, if I really have to. In the future I'll pay more attention and try to get 240v in the garage, but for now I'd like something that can handle the sheet metal work and such I've got without constantly having to run a line out.

Something doesn't add up,,,you say you have 60 amps in the garage,,,do you mean that you have an old small panel box in the garage which only has about 4 15 amp breakers in it,,,,in that case you have 220 in the garage already ,,,cause a sub panel like that would have a 220 feed to it and would seem like it only has 110 because it has limited breaker space due to it's size...if that is the case,,,you could easily replace the small sub panel box with a larger one an add a 220 breaker to feed your welder,,,,,need further imformation about the 60 amps you have going to the garage...

[Jason]

Maybe not all places require it but you would need a permit to do the electrical work but you can do it yourself. Here we can take a test showing we understand what we are doing and then we could get a permit to do the electrical work ourselves without being licensed. Its really not hard to do the work. As others said, you can share an outlet with an appliance.

[Paul Moir]

I'm with geezer. I know I've never seen a 60A single phase system, and I can't imagine a reason for ever installing one. 30A/2 phase would be way cheaper for one thing. If you don't know much about electrical work, find someone who does and get a second opinion.

[Kempy]

I'm with geezer. I know I've never seen a 60A single phase system, and I can't imagine a reason for ever installing one. 30A/2 phase would be way cheaper for one thing. If you don't know much about electrical work, find someone who does and get a second opinion.

I have seen this before what is 2 phase? All I have ever seen is single phase or three phase for residential and commercial. All motors are single or three phase and welders the same what is TWO PHASE???

[MuttonHawg]

I would assume that by "2-phase" he means split phase, or the common way that dual-rail residential electrical panels are configured.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power

[Paul Moir]

Yeah, 2 phases, 180 degrees out. AKA split phase.
Can't imagine why it would be "incorrect".

[Kempy]

I would assume that by "2-phase" he means split phase, or the common way that dual-rail residential electrical panels are configured.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power

A split-phase electricity distribution system is a 3-wire single-phase distribution system. It is the AC equivalent of the original Edison 3-wire direct current system. Its primary advantage is that it saves conductor material over a single ended single phase system while only requiring single phase on the supply side of the distribution transformer. Since there are two live conductors in the system, it is sometimes incorrectly referred to as "two-phase". The "hot" conductors' waveforms are offset by a half-cycle, or 180 degrees offset, when measured against the neutral wire. To avoid confusion with split-phase motor start applications, it is appropriate[according to whom?] to call this power distribution system a 3-wire, single-phase, midpoint neutral system.

[GV00]

Yeah, that's what it looks like. Basically, it looks like maybe a previous owner pulled the fuse box for the house when they upgraded to breakers. The garage comes off of the house panel, has a 60 amp breaker feeding it (one of the double-wide ones). I believe it actually goes underground to the garage, where there's two honkin' huge fuses and 4 small fuses in the fuse box there -- 3 15's and a 20.

I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to upgrade it, but frankly I don't want to throw money at it, and I can't do it myself -- it isn't my garage, and the landlord has stipulated that any work must be done by a qualified electrician. I had one take a look at it, and for a breaker box install and 2 220 outlets, he was guessing about $800. I'd rather sink that money into a welder that can run 110 most of the time, and run a long extension cord to meet my 220 needs when they arise. At least that way, down the road, I can resell the welder and recoup some of my money if I need something bigger. If I upgrade the garage, that's money I've given the landlord for free. He's a good guy, but I'm already paying all I want to pay rent-wise, you know?

Something doesn't add up,,,you say you have 60 amps in the garage,,,do you mean that you have an old small panel box in the garage which only has about 4 15 amp breakers in it,,,,in that case you have 220 in the garage already ,,,cause a sub panel like that would have a 220 feed to it and would seem like it only has 110 because it has limited breaker space due to it's size...if that is the case,,,you could easily replace the small sub panel box with a larger one an add a 220 breaker to feed your welder,,,,,need further imformation about the 60 amps you have going to the garage...

Sportbike, thanks for the 200DX suggestion -- sounds like the ticket. I'll be doing a lot of body work on an old Landcruiser BJ40, so I figure a plasma may be the best bet -- but I'll look into a nibbler too, seems like it might be handy.

As for the other "Just pull 220 off of the house with an extension cord" ideas, it's doable, but preferably avoided unless I really need to since the cable would have to be run through very high traffic areas and out the main door. It'd just be messy and asking for trouble, so I'd like to get away with 110 in the shop when I can and only resort to dropping a 220 extension when I really have to.

[everlastsupport]

Your two "honkin" fuses are probably the 220vac 60 amps. The 220DX is not a 110vac unit. Is the Lancruiser BJ40 all steel? You might have to go with the PT185 for 110vac.

[GV00]

Your two "honkin" fuses are probably the 220vac 60 amps. The 220DX is not a 110vac unit. Is the Lancruiser BJ40 all steel? You might have to go with the PT185 for 110vac.

Yeah, entirely steel. I thought a newer dual voltage version of the 200DX had either just come out or was just about to come out? Am I wrong? It'd be nice to have the stick functionality too.