everlast vs Longevity ?

[travis]

is everlast and Longevity welders related ? same company i was just on that site looks like this site if related whats the differance in them ?

[performance]

No, but they have been known copy product lines and literature from other companies that enjoy success with a product, not just us. There is a family by marriage connection, but that is it. Not best of friends for sure.

[travis]

products dont look as nice and are more costly from what i seen

[youngnstudly]

No, but they have been known copy product lines and literature from other companies that enjoy success with a product, not just us. There is a family by marriage connection, but that is it. Not best of friends for sure.

It's funny you mention that since I've heard (numerous times now) that Everlast and Longevity are the same manufacture, but "brother/sister" companies! When I hear the rumors, I always ask "So which company is the brother, and which is the sister?"(LOL).

I did a little research on Longevity when I was first looking at TIG welders a year ago, and I only found a few happy customer reviews upon searching, but a whole lot of unhappy reviews! To be fair, if you go on the welding forums where Lincoln and Miller are the majority, there's a lot of trash talk about ALL Chinese welders!

[ShaneJackson]

I did the same when I was first looking at welders. I talked to Longevity and they had problems answering some specifics as well. Also their prices are higher and contacting them was harder.... I too seen some bad reviews on them.

I cant speak as to their quality as I chose Everlast. I can say I LOVE my Everlast products. Very happy with them.

[youngnstudly]

I have to say that I'm as happy with my Everlast as I would be with a baseline (no frills) Miller or Lincoln TIG. The really expensive Miller and Lincoln's have great features, but for the cost I could pay a professional to come out and BUILD the things I want, while I sat on my butt and watched! Then my (imaginary) friends would think I was a REAL welder!

[SeanMurphy265]

I've noticed that over the last year Longevity appears to have changed factories. They came out with new machines that look identical to Eastwood's machines. I saw the video with a new mig welder that looks identical to the old Harbor Freight 90 amp flux core welder. They currently have 5 200amp tig welders on their website. Why would you want to sell 5 machines in the same amp range?

[MuttonHawg]

I also noticed the similarity in appearance between some Longevity products and some Everlast products, but I chalked it up to either A) same factory, same parts in different combinations, B) common suppliers for the cases so they LOOK the same but the innards are different, or C) reverse engineering and/or intellectual property theft. Based on the little discussion I have followed on the topic, it sounds like it's some combination of (B) and (C).

Like others, I read lots of pretty good reviews and opinions of Everlast products, and since they're a bit less expensive (and I like green), I went that route. So in reality, it doesn't matter to me all that much what Longevity does, because I'm happy with my Everlast and will likely continue to purchase/support that company's products.

Then my (imaginary) friends would think I was a REAL welder!

Some of my best friends are imaginary, and they believe whatever I tell them

[Kempy]

When I was looking for a Invert type TigWeld 250 AC/DC I saw the Longevity and phoned them asking question but they could not give me a stright answer to my questions and the Rated Duty Cycle was only 35% at full power???. Talked to Everlast and got a stright answers about the product and the Rated Duty Cycle is 60% at full power, they are also using Siemens Power Modules I like. So now I am waiting for my Everlast 250EX 2013 should be in Canada middle this month around Feb.14 or so.

is everlast and Longevity welders related ? same company i was just on that site looks like this site if related whats the differance in them ?

[geezer]

When I was looking for a Invert type TigWeld 250 AC/DC I saw the Longevity and phoned them asking question but they could not give me a stright answer to my questions and the Rated Duty Cycle was only 35% at full power???. Talked to Everlast and got a stright answers about the product and the Rated Duty Cycle is 60% at full power, they are also using Siemens Power Modules I like. So now I am waiting for my Everlast 250EX 2013 should be in Canada middle this month around Feb.14 or so.

On order for the Spring of 2013 Everlast Canada
PowerTig 250EX, Power I-MIG 205 w/spoolgun,PowerCool W300

You have bought wisely,,,you will not be dissapointed..I have that stuff my self,,,no regrets..

[Mr120]

They started selling a tig welder more than a year after Eastwood started selling it and called it "their" new model. Now they're selling a low cost mig welder that Harbor Freight carried? Sounds to me that they pick up either surplus products or products no one else wants to carry and claim that "their" product department designed them. I'm not bashing just saying what it looks like.

It's OK to import stuff but it just doesn't seem right for them to then turn around and appear to deceive their customers by saying it's "their factory" and that they designed the stuff.

It's pretty clear to me that Everlast works closely with their factory. It's also clear to me that Everlast isn't a clearance center for surplus products. Given the amount of product Everlast sells, I'm pretty sure that Everlast will be around for quite a while to provide service and advice when I need it.

[Mike J]

It's OK to import stuff but it just doesn't seem right for them to then turn around and appear to deceive their customers by saying it's "their factory" and that they designed the stuff.

It's pretty clear to me that Everlast works closely with their factory. It's also clear to me that Everlast isn't a clearance center for surplus products. Given the amount of product Everlast sells, I'm pretty sure that Everlast will be around for quite a while to provide service and advice when I need it.

But Everlast is just a sales channel for certain welder factories in China. Sure, there is some customization done by the factory for a supplier, but it must be either paid work up front, or on contractual obligation for certain volumes, but let's be clear, the ownership of the IP, design, and production capability of the welders is all with the factory which is also supplying equipment to multiple channels.

When I first joined this forum, that is what surprised me - how little Everlast knew of the inners of their machines, and how the factory had complete control over that IP/design. I mean the real inners, the internal electrical design, the software code. Everlast does know enough to do a decent job of support, but often they have to go back to the factory to ask about a feature or parameters. When a new welder is introduced, they are often learning of features along with the customers...

To be clear, this is not a bad thing, it's just the way it works. The failure of the 250EXT was a classic case, the factory basically screwed up, the testing that Everlast performed did not catch the issues, and finally the initial users found them and objected. Everlast was caught between their customers and the factory, not a good place to be. During that time, there were constant "we need to check with the factory" type responses.

That is why you see lots of suppliers with very similar looking machines under different labels, they are often from the same source. In that environment, the selection of which "supplier" to go with comes down to price and service. Everlast is trying to build their brand on service, mostly successfully, and a bit on price. They are not the cheapest on the market, but one of the best for service.

About to how stable Everlast is, they have a good track record, but if they do not keep the revenue flowing with new sales to feed the machine, they can disappear really quick. I do not think they any tangible assets like a typical high tech company would have, like patent protected designs, proprietary production techniques, factory capabilities, etc. The funny thing is, if a company failure happens, I am sure someone will find out the source factory in China, and for spares/etc. we can look at dealing direct, or find another supplier selling the same welder in a different color.

Cheers,

Mike

[Titan winch]

As far as the differences between Everlast and Longevity some posts are fairly accurate as far as they go but the real in depth truths would surprise a lot of people. Other posters like to portray themselves as some type of experts in Everlast business and I have seen these same posters with there opinions and statements being so far off the mark it borders on the ludricous.
Cheers

[Oleg]

as far as the differences between everlast and longevity some posts are fairly accurate as far as they go but the real in depth truths would surprise a lot of people. Other posters like to portray themselves as some type of experts in everlast business and i have seen these same posters with there opinions and statements being so far off the mark it borders on the ludricous.
Cheers

well said duncan !

[Mike J]

Then tell us the truth o wise one....

[performance]

Having a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. As Duncan said, as a ground man in China, some of the comments border on ludicrous. But in short, why would we show all our cards to help our competitors...or to our customers for that matter and tell them what is going on in deep within the company? We are transparent as we can be, but I find the companies that talk the loudest have the least going on. As far as things go, I've had in depth discussion with factory representatives from the "majors". One went so far as to admit to me, that they routinely copied other designs and made just enough changes to keep them legal. He went of further to say that, As soon as another company released a "new" product, that on the day of the release, that product would be torn down and the design team would start working on design solutions to work around patents IF any, before the end of the work day..."There's a lot of parity in our products between their and our products" he said. These companies are also scouring the world over bringing new designed products from all over the globe, including China back to the U.S. to study and copy themselves. I believe Duncan has run into a few of these "spies" while he is in China on a routine basis...and even eaten a meal or two with them.

[Big Paulie]

I am real novice at welding, and just getting into it, so the channel and the value add of the channel is clearly the deciding factor when dealling with import equipment. Eastwood is a good source for a lot of things, welders is NOT their only business, and the longevity welders are probably OK, I just thought the Everlast was a better package, had more positive discussions, and Jody's videos are great for learning how it shoud be done. He is great with flowing the information quickly clearly and concisely. I got a much better feeling for how the Everlast operates from his site and videos. Also, I am an EE, and have been in the computer engineering business for 39 years, with IBM. I know solid electronic design and packaging when I see it. I have been under the covers on my 210EXT, and can see many areas for improvement, but like what I see. Less discrete wiring, potted circuit boards, minimal circuit paths, and modularconstruction that can be easily serviced. (Also looked under the covers of some Miller, Lincoln and off brand other imports.

Everlast appears to do well on the sales and warranty part, from what I see.

I would think that a better service Manual, trouble shooting and design that is better at diagnosing, and localizing failures to a FRU (Field Replaceable Unit), that can be shipped to the user for (qualified) users to self replace would be a big improvement over shipping the whole box back for service and waiting several weeks. That would take some better diagnostics, schematics and trouble shooting information, as well as some rediesign of packaging to improve user serviceability, and safety. Then there is the liability issue and continued warranty coverage, in case the user introduces more damage while servicing. Not a simple or quick solution.

An alternative would be a refurbished/loaner program, where the user can order a temp loaner, by securing with a credit card, then using that box to return their defective unit for service, then when it comes back, return the loaner to the pool, using that box would be a killer support strategy. Depending on the failure rate and time to repair, the extra inventory may be good or bad (only Everlast can know). That would ease concerns among the pros that can't tolerate downtime. Even if it were offered as a premium service option for a slight incremental cost, it would be attractive option.

Then there are always the "ain't made in America, can't be good" rednecks out there. They obviously don't have televisions, stereos, microwaves, cell phones etc. Or have not looked inside to see the componenets. This is a Romney 47% issue: No matter what you do, you will not ever win them over.

I discovered Everlast after I bought some other stuff from HF and Northern, and they are all good for what they are. I don't hesitate to loan my cheapo HF flux welder to my neighbor's kid to play and learn with. Otherwise I would have gone with the Everlast MTS200 or 250 for my Mig needs, vs the Northern Hybrid 200. (Everlast has postflow, downslope, and a real Tig Pedal, and is also spoolgun ready). Fine print on the Northern is that the spool gun was only rated for 160amps. Not really enough for thicker aluminum MIG welding. Everlast MTS250 with a 250W spoolgun would be a much better approach. Like I said, I am still learning.

Sorry for the rambling, but I had some time on my hands.

[ShaneJackson]

I do not think they any tangible assets like a typical high tech company would have, like patent protected designs.....

LOL Patents are so overrated. I think they are more of an advertising gimmick that actually offering protection.... that is unless you are a multibillion dollar company and then you can litigate all the small fries out of business.

[Mike J]

LOL Patents are so overrated. I think they are more of an advertising gimmick that actually offering protection.... that is unless you are a multibillion dollar company and then you can litigate all the small fries out of business.

Lets see, I have started several companies now, three of them in high tech, and in two of the three cases the Patents were a very tangible asset that made the company more valuable, and as a result more money in my pockets. In North America, is more than an "advertising gimmick" - and I am saying that from actually being there, and even using it for defending our products. I was just using patents just as an example anyways, and given the free-flow of IP in China and lack of protection for design rights, its more of a matter of which factory has the best engineers, the best industrial espionage (which is what Mark is saying), the fastest to market, and the best customers that suggest and push for features that results in the best welders. I think that is were Everlast comes in, they can take their ideas and customer feedback and feed it back to the "factory" to be incorporated into new designs that can be brought to market (which the others like Longevity does as well). Its definitely a race!

[performance]

Lets see, I have started several companies now, three of them in high tech, and in two of the three cases the Patents were a very tangible asset that made the company more valuable, and as a result more money in my pockets. In North America, is more than an "advertising gimmick" - and I am saying that from actually being there, and even using it for defending our products. I was just using patents just as an example anyways, and given the free-flow of IP in China and lack of protection for design rights, its more of a matter of which factory has the best engineers, the best industrial espionage (which is what Mark is saying), the fastest to market, and the best customers that suggest and push for features that results in the best welders. I think that is were Everlast comes in, they can take their ideas and customer feedback and feed it back to the "factory" to be incorporated into new designs that can be brought to market (which the others like Longevity does as well). Its definitely a race!

Again, Mike, you miss the point by your pontificating and are wrong on some many levels. My point was that US companies are in the East doing their own ripping and robbing...and they have similar situations to what we have. Lincoln manufactures in China, and Italy. Thermal arc is well into China as well. Miller is now admitting to "assembled" in the USA. Our situation is quite similar to theirs in how things are done...and they ALL had similar issues that we have had.