iTig-200 Noob having some troubles doing beads on 1/8

[seanm]

Hi folks. I've had this welder for about a year. I have the foot pedal. I started with 1/8 hot rolled steel, cleaned off the mill scale, wiped it down with acetone and am practicing beads. I'm using a 3/32" thoriated tungsten and 3/32" ER70S2 filler rod. For this welder if the foot pedal is attached the amp control on the welder doesn't do anything. I did some welds with the foot pedal then switched to the trigger, setting the power at 130 and then 120 amps, to eliminate me and the foot pedal for 1 variable. I started with a copper piece between my scraps and the welding table and then switched to use small pieces of angle iron, to elminate the copper sheet as a heat sink and how it might serve as a backing plate. I either get somewhat decent ripples on the front and what I think to be poor penetration in the back or I end up too hot. I'm left handed so I travel from left to right. When I was welding without the foot pedal there's more problems at the end on the right side when things get too hot. I've posted pictures of the welder knob settings, my table setup, and 4 pictures front and back of each piece. In case it isn't clear from the picture pulse is turned off. I'd like to hear suggestions and questions to get better at this. I'm trying to figure out everything (arc length, heat settings, travel speed). Thanks a lot folks.

[Kempy]

Looks like to much amps (heat) and you are using to big of a welding rod for 1/8 steel. You should use 1/16 welding rod and less amps (heat). By what I can see in the pics it is taking a lot of heat to melt the rod and 1/8 plate is too hot. Using less heat and a smaller rod should help. Need to know gas flow and the distance you are holding the tungsten away from the work piece it might be to far all takes practice.

[performance]

3/32 isn't too big of a filler rod. In fact, the filler rod should be about the thickness of the metal or less. So this is fine. I suspect you are holding your torch too far off. Keep the arc to about the thickness of a quarter away from the metal. You are trying to compensate the distance and the heat spreading out with more heat...and that doesn't work. This is where you should try welding with the torch switch so you learn careful manipulation of the heat, and learn what amps you need to use. You should try to set it for about 80 amps or so. That should be enough heat. Other areas you are going to fast, no doubt to prevent burnthrough.

[Kempy]

So you are saying that if I weld 3/8 plate I should use 3/8 rod or less 5/16 rod to weld it.

[piopio]

i wouldnt be too worried about getting full penetration on 1/8 plate if your just starting off.try it with butt welds when youre more comfortable and itll come easier

[performance]

So you are saying that if I weld 3/8 plate I should use 3/8 rod or less 5/16 rod to weld it.

Yes, if you are intent on making a single pass out of it...which is one reason why you don't make single pass welds that thick.

[Kempy]

Point made I understand now what you meant.

Yes, if you are intent on making a single pass out of it...which is one reason why you don't make single pass welds that thick.

[seanm]

Thanks for the responses guys. I was setting the power level following the 1 amp per .001 inch guideline and maybe taking that too literally. I may have the torch too far off. When I do a dry run my arc length seems good. When I did these beads it seemed at the end of the weld I was further away than at the beginning. It's a lot to think about when things look like they aren't going right. Next weekend I'll cut some more pieces and try out 80 amps and let you know how it goes.
I thought about using 1/8 filler and 1/8 tungsten to go along with the 1/8 thick steel. I have 1/8 tungten but only have 3/32 and smaller filler rod, and for the 17 torch I don't have a 1/8 collet. I have 1/8 for my 9 series torch but to do the trigger switch I need to stick with the 17 torch. I'll pick up some 1/8 stuff next time I'm at the welding supply store.
- Sean

[zoama]

Thanks for the responses guys. I was setting the power level following the 1 amp per .001 inch guideline and maybe taking that too literally. I may have the torch too far off. When I do a dry run my arc length seems good. When I did these beads it seemed at the end of the weld I was further away than at the beginning. It's a lot to think about when things look like they aren't going right. Next weekend I'll cut some more pieces and try out 80 amps and let you know how it goes.
I thought about using 1/8 filler and 1/8 tungsten to go along with the 1/8 thick steel. I have 1/8 tungten but only have 3/32 and smaller filler rod, and for the 17 torch I don't have a 1/8 collet. I have 1/8 for my 9 series torch but to do the trigger switch I need to stick with the 17 torch. I'll pick up some 1/8 stuff next time I'm at the welding supply store.
- Sean

Match the tungsten to your welding amps. 3/32 will do for most work.

[performance]

Amp range for steel is usually different, especially on an inverter. Set it for no more than 90 amps and about 3/32 arc gap or less.

[Paul Moir]

3/32 isn't too big of a filler rod.

For me I had to burn through a lot of 1/16" rods before I got good with bigger ones. I could make good welds with 1/16" but not with the larger ones until I got used to the puddle cooling. Smaller tungstens were easier to grind when I dipped.

Obviously this applies to steel as you really need the thicker rods when doing aluminium. (Says someone who does very little aluminium.. Obviously eh?)

[DVA]

Hi folks. I've had this welder for about a year. I have the foot pedal. I started with 1/8 hot rolled steel, cleaned off the mill scale, wiped it down with acetone and am practicing beads. I'm using a 3/32" thoriated tungsten and 3/32" ER70S2 filler rod. For this welder if the foot pedal is attached the amp control on the welder doesn't do anything. I did some welds with the foot pedal then switched to the trigger, setting the power at 130 and then 120 amps, to eliminate me and the foot pedal for 1 variable. I started with a copper piece between my scraps and the welding table and then switched to use small pieces of angle iron, to elminate the copper sheet as a heat sink and how it might serve as a backing plate. I either get somewhat decent ripples on the front and what I think to be poor penetration in the back or I end up too hot. I'm left handed so I travel from left to right. When I was welding without the foot pedal there's more problems at the end on the right side when things get too hot. I've posted pictures of the welder knob settings, my table setup, and 4 pictures front and back of each piece. In case it isn't clear from the picture pulse is turned off. I'd like to hear suggestions and questions to get better at this. I'm trying to figure out everything (arc length, heat settings, travel speed). Thanks a lot folks.

It would also help if you would clean off the mill scale as mill scale does not burn off well with GTAW.
I would also try out some lap, corner, t, butt and edge joints.

[youngnstudly]

I would say that you need to start out using no filler rod (with the foot pedal), just simply run the torch along your metal in a straight line generating the smallest bead you can get....I'm talking about a bead that is nearly invisible! Forget the torch switch for now. The idea here is to learn what you need to watch out for in order to produce a weld that isn't too hot. Being up close and personal while running your beads is something that is necessary too. Many people tend to TIG weld hunched over while squinting from a distance, and I've found that you really need to be "right there" in front of the bead to see what's going on.

Once you get to that point where a simple fusion weld looks good (isn't dark grey in color, has a nice ripple pattern, etc.), increase your heat just enough to melt your filler metal, and start adding rod. As Paul mentioned, you may have an easier time using smaller rod when learning. Larger rod means more heat, which can complicate things for you if you don't know what to watch for. Too much heat is easy to do when TIG welding. Keep the beads small if you can help it.

I think DVA's suggestion of welding lap and corner joints is perfect, and I'd start there using your 3/32" filler rod. You can fuse weld a lap joint using low heat, then go over the top of your fusion weld with a "normal" bead that uses filler rod. Keep the heat low enough on the fusion weld to leave your top plate's corner intact (not rolled or melted off) so that you have a visible line to follow for your top bead. Then start stacking your lapped joints together to form more lap joints to weld.

You can weld corners together on 2 pieces of flat stock (say 6" long) in the flat position, using a piece of angle iron below to clamp your flat stock to. The flat stock will be welded together in the position that resembles an upside down letter "V". Then you take all of your upside down "V's" and put them together to make the letter "M". Then weld your "M's" together to create one long "MMMMM." All the legs of the M would be at 45 degree angles (not straight up like the keyboard version of "M" shows), so it would technically look like this: /\/\/\/\/\

Good practice for welding peaks and valleys, or weld the peaks, then flip the piece over and weld the peaks on the otherside where the legs of the "M's" meet. One simple 4" long strip of 1"x1/8" flat stock would keep you busy for a little while.

FYI, my Everlast tig doesn't allow amp control on the panel with the foot pedal plugged in either. I believe that this is normal for most (if not all) Everlast welders, so you really have to use your foot pedal conservatively in order to produce small, low amp welds. It's noted on the Everlast site if you search through their different TIG welders too. Good luck!

[seanm]

Here's some pics after running with 80 amps set on the welder. 80 amps is a whole lot better than 120 amps! This just doing beads with no filler rod, trying to get a good handle on torch angle and arch length.
Andy - I want to keep practing with what I've started with and build up from there. I think I want to get confident with angle and arch length and the power set on the welder side without being uncertain of the power setting with me at the foot pedal. I'll add in the foot pedal later.
I figured out that after doing a whole lot of beads all of the metal becomes a HAZ so I put in some pics after 3 welds on each of the 4 pieces. I put the penny in for something of a known size for those beads. I then did more beads and I do think I had too much arch length in the begnning. On the pics with more than 3 beads I do see where the bead is more narrow due to me getting closer with the arc length. I'm getting better with the arc length sometimes but I want to get more consistent with more practice. I've had this a year and haven't practiced enough and been unhappy with other results so I'm finding a lot more patience now to practice more. I also had a Harbor Freight welder that was lift start so "Noob" might not be accurate but I've already "blah-blahed" too much!
Piece 05
Piece 06
Piece 07
Piece 08
4 pieces front
4 pieces back

[SeanMurphy265]

Try running beads with filler rod. Just lay the rod flat on the surface and run you puddle on top of the rod. That will help you with travel speed and your torch angle. After you get the hand of that you can practice dipping the rod. I've thought about purchasing that several times. It would have to be comparable to Miller Maxstar at a fraction of the cost.

[DVA]

Looking better but still getting excessive penetration. Adding filler material will help pull some of the heat out of the weld and prevent the burn through.

It would also help to do a lap joint, as there will be two pieces of material to pull out the heat. You can run a lap joint without filler material (autogenous weld) just as you were doing with one piece of material but you will be melting the two pieces together.

[willida]

I would also check your gas flow. Looks very "chalky" When I've had welds like that, increasing the gas flow helped.

[Johnson]

Sometimes using too little of amps can make you sit around too long waiting for the toes of the puddle to wet in...that will make the back burn through. If you set your heat, and torch angle right you should be able to to move, dab, move, dab.....ect. The torch angle should be slanted to the side just enough to keep the puddle from bulging under the tungsten and contaminating it as you add filler. If it's slanted too much the filler will ball up and melt to early and drip before the puddle causing irregular looking weld bead. You need to keep the arc length as short as possible, get the right torch angle, amps, get filler rod angle right, and move at the right speed. TIG is not the easiest to make look pretty, but when you get it right, nothing can touch the micro sized super tight weld bead size. Good luck!

[seanm]

Thanks for all the tips. When I was doing practice welds with the power set on the welder I was using the blue Euro style WP17 torch. I have been practicing more with the WP9 torch I got with my Harbor Freight welder a while ago and am doing better with this torch and getting my arc length closer. Yesterday I got stuff for the CK 9 flex head torch for 3/32 tungsten so I'll start using that for further practice. I have been practicing with the foot pedal, watching the puddle as Andy suggested, done some lap welds without and with filler, and some butt welds. I figured out with the way I was holding the torch I started with a close arc length but at the end of the weld I'd look at my hand and see a bigger arc length. With concentrating on other things my hand would relax just enough to go to a natural position with a bigger arc length. I'm changing the way I hold the torch so the relaxed position has a better/closer arc length.
Now that I've been focusing more on the puddle I am wondering if my helmet may be making things harder for me. By that I have read postings saying they can see better after buying a better helmet. I have an auto-darkening one I got from Northern Tool a few years ago, the most basic one. I'm thinking about an Accu-strike to be my next helmet instead of an auto-darkening one. I'm pretty busy with other work stuff the next few weekends so I don't want to get it until I have enough time to evaluate it and return it within 30 days if I don't like it. I have been flashed when doing some thinner (20 gauge) stuff with the helmet I have now. It's got 2 sensors. If I don't like the Accu-strike helmet maybe I'll get one from HTP. Perhaps I could go there and "try before I buy" or get one when I attend a class (more on that below).
I'll post some more pics after I get time with the CK torch and 3/32 tungsten, and I'm more consistent. I'm getting better, but not consistent enough to post pics to ask for suggestions.
I live about an hour from HTP weld in Illinois. In the past they've done a 4.5 hour TIG welding class. If they do some more of those I'll enroll which will be some good help for me.