MTS250S Code 802 ??

[Kempy]

I think .045 aluminum wire will solve the syn mode problem.

I will get some .045 alum. wire and try it, hope it work but the problem was not there when I first got the machine.

[Kempy]

Well I tried .045 alum wire in SYN Spool, wire type Alum., wire size .045 auto 100% Argon, tip .062 wire, speed full and Volts 23.6V amps 241.

Conclusion don't use in SYN Spool mode and Alum. just Steel and SS.

[Rambozo]

I will get some .045 alum. wire and try it, hope it work but the problem was not there when I first got the machine.

The fact that it wasn't like this when you first got it, means something has changed. And it's not like you are new to welding and wouldn't know what to look for. Because of how easy a fix it would be I would see if you can get your spoolgun swapped out. After all, the problem is limited to using the spoolgun.

[performance]

IF the amps are at 241, that's kind of high for aluminum period...even with .045. It would melt anything at that amperage. Aluminum doesn't require nearly the amps. 140-150 amps is about it (400+ ipm). That's a big part of the problem. More isn't better.

[sportbike]

IF the amps are at 241, that's kind of high for aluminum period...even with .045. It would melt anything at that amperage. Aluminum doesn't require nearly the amps. 140-150 amps is about it (400+ ipm). That's a big part of the problem. More isn't better.

Is the "Live" nozzle and other torch components intentional Mark?

Seems a bit odd to have a completely energized gun while welding rather than just the tip and wire.

[Kempy]

IF the amps are at 241, that's kind of high for aluminum period...even with .045. It would melt anything at that amperage. Aluminum doesn't require nearly the amps. 140-150 amps is about it (400+ ipm). That's a big part of the problem. More isn't better.

In SYN Spool Mode.
Select M Steel Votes set to 22.0V amps set to 200amp.
Select .023 wire volts are still 22.0V and amps are still 200A
Select .030 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Select .035 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Select .045 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Selecting now SS 306/318 Votes stay at 22.0V amps stay at 200A.
Select .023 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Select .030 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Select .035 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Select .045 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Selecting now Alum. 4043/5356 Votes stay at 22.0V and amps stays at 200A.
Wire Auto .045

No matter what you select nothing changes in the amps and volts.

Now test again set in Spool none SYN mode Volts 23.5V and Amps ? wire speed 404 in/min wire .045/ 5356 tip .062 100% Argon.
Weld very messy but did weld stopped after 2 in.

Ok now the big test in SYN Spool mode set Volts to 23.5V the same and Amps Auto to 241A cannot change wire speed ? in/min wire .045/ 5356 tip .062 100% Argon
Weld start stop code 802

[performance]

This is a standard 24 Binzel/Trafimet configuration. I need to check, later when I have time about the live issue. The one thing about is, that this is the same gun that Miller uses in their spoolmate 200...with a different barrel.

[performance]

In SYN Spool Mode.
Select M Steel Votes set to 22.0V amps set to 200amp.
Select .023 wire volts are still 22.0V and amps are still 200A
Select .030 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Select .035 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Select .045 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Selecting now SS 306/318 Votes stay at 22.0V amps stay at 200A.
Select .023 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Select .030 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Select .035 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Select .045 wire Volts and amps stay the same.
Selecting now Alum. 4043/5356 Votes stay at 22.0V and amps stays at 200A.
Wire Auto .045

No matter what you select nothing changes in the amps and volts.

Now test again set in Spool none SYN mode Volts 23.5V and Amps ? wire speed 404 in/min wire .045/ 5356 tip .062 100% Argon.
Weld very messy but did weld stopped after 2 in.

Ok now the big test in SYN Spool mode set Volts to 23.5V the same and Amps Auto to 241A cannot change wire speed ? in/min wire .045/ 5356 tip .062 100% Argon
Weld start stop code 802

Did you watch the tutorial yet onl youtube yet? Amps adjust the wire speed and wire speed adjust the amps in ANY mig system. This is a basic concept in MIG that the wirespeed controls the amps, and although they read differently they are controlling the same thing. Although it registers as amps in synergic mode, it doesn't mean you can't adjust the wire speed against the voltage. Again, at 241 Amps, you are going to burn things up anyway because the spoolgun is duty cycle rated for 200 amps. Anything above that is limited operation. Turn it down to 150 or so on amps...when you do, it will slow down the wire speed. Amps are a function of wire speed and wire diameter. As we have said in, you may need to retune for optimal operation. I'd back it down a half a volt as well. Turn your amps down to 140-150 and then readjust your voltage back up to 23.

[Kempy]

Did you watch the tutorial yet onl youtube yet? Amps adjust the wire speed and wire speed adjust the amps in ANY mig system. This is a basic concept in MIG that the wirespeed controls the amps, and although they read differently they are controlling the same thing. Although it registers as amps in synergic mode, it doesn't mean you can't adjust the wire speed against the voltage. Again, at 241 Amps, you are going to burn things up anyway because the spoolgun is duty cycle rated for 200 amps. Anything above that is limited operation. Turn it down to 150 or so on amps...when you do, it will slow down the wire speed. Amps are a function of wire speed and wire diameter. As we have said in, you may need to retune for optimal operation. I'd back it down a half a volt as well. Turn your amps down to 140-150 and then readjust your voltage back up to 23.

In testing the motor speed on the Spool gun as close as possible to the been the same settings I got.
Test # 1 Spool None SYN
Motor RPM 28 at 23.5V 400 in/min
Test # 2 Spool SYN
Motor RPM 17 at 23.5V 151Amps
Test # 3 Spool None SYN
Motor RPM 16.9 at 23.5V 224 in/min

Conclusion with RPM the same in SYN mode and None SYN mode volts the same inches per minute are not the same not even close 176 in/min less.

[performance]

In testing the motor speed on the Spool gun as close as possible to the been the same settings I got.
Test # 1 Spool None SYN
Motor RPM 28 at 23.5V 400 in/min
Test # 2 Spool SYN
Motor RPM 17 at 23.5V 151Amps
Test # 3 Spool None SYN
Motor RPM 16.9 at 23.5V 224 in/min

Conclusion with RPM the same in SYN mode and None SYN mode volts the same inches per minute are not the same not even close 176 in/min less.

I guess I am not following what you are trying to prove here or you aren't following what I have said. We've already established that you need to RETUNE your amps and volts in the synergic mode to make this work properly. To reduce your voltage, simply turn it DOWN in synergic mode! It allows you to override the preset setting...and it will retain that NEW ratio when you make further changes during the welding session.

[Kempy]

I guess I am not following what you are trying to prove here or you aren't following what I have said. We've already established that you need to RETUNE your amps and volts in the synergic mode to make this work properly. To reduce your voltage, simply turn it DOWN in synergic mode! It allows you to override the preset setting...and it will retain that NEW ratio when you make further changes during the welding session.

The voltage and amps set to what you wanted and it just burns the wire up tip with out even put any weld down. I set the volts at 15.5V amps a 151A motor RPM is 17 at 25.9V amps at 151A RPM dose not change still 17.-17.1.

[Kempy]

Test to get it to weld not nice but it did not burn back wire speed full on gun amps 241A volts 23.0V. at 22.5V it give me a bigger mess. Back to when I got the machine it welded just fine in SYN Spool mode very nice welds.

[performance]

Again, Kempy, not following you here. It seems you are replying to my questions or thoughts... but on a different plain. I never said set it to 15 volts. Set at 15 volts, and at that amp setting you will have issues. Reset the volts in synergic mode to 23V AFTER adjusting the amperage to 150 BEFORE you try to weld or take measurements. Please try to punctuate better because it's very, very hard to understand what is being said... Use fuller sentences as well. I am just not following you that well. I am really only trying to help, but its like we are both speaking English but somehow not communicating very well.


My guess is that when welding too hot initially, over the duty cycle of the gun, you MAY have burned up something inside the gun. That would account for the change and some of the issues you are seeing.

Burn back is caused by poor shielding, the wire staying energized after the gun quits feeding, holding too long of an arc at start. (The gun must be really close), Starting on oxidized metal with poor conductivity at the start, Too high of wire speed feed at the start resulting in a "blowing" off of the wire, Too long of an arc length at start (should be 3/4" or less, better at 1/2" or less) or poor contact between the contact tip and the wire, and even dragging/seizing between the contact tip and the wire, One more could be drive roll slippage.

The wire feed readings/amp readings on a gun without welding are not accurate. It would be best to have someone weld while you watch the changeover from IPM to actual amps while welding to compare the two.

Instead of worrying about gauging RPM, just measure wire spool off with the gun pressed for 15 seconds and multiply the length of the despooled wire by 4 to get inches per minute. Just roll it back on when you finish each test. This is a more accurate way.

[Kempy]

Again, Kempy, not following you here. It seems you are replying to my questions or thoughts... but on a different plain. I never said set it to 15 volts. Set at 15 volts, and at that amp setting you will have issues. Reset the volts in synergic mode to 23V AFTER adjusting the amperage to 150 BEFORE you try to weld or take measurements. Please try to punctuate better because it's very, very hard to understand what is being said... Use fuller sentences as well. I am just not following you that well. I am really only trying to help, but its like we are both speaking English but somehow not communicating very well.


My guess is that when welding too hot initially, over the duty cycle of the gun, you MAY have burned up something inside the gun. That would account for the change and some of the issues you are seeing.

Burn back is caused by poor shielding, the wire staying energized after the gun quits feeding, holding too long of an arc at start. (The gun must be really close), Starting on oxidized metal with poor conductivity at the start, Too high of wire speed feed at the start resulting in a "blowing" off of the wire, Too long of an arc length at start (should be 3/4" or less, better at 1/2" or less) or poor contact between the contact tip and the wire, and even dragging/seizing between the contact tip and the wire, One more could be drive roll slippage.

The wire feed readings/amp readings on a gun without welding are not accurate. It would be best to have someone weld while you watch the changeover from IPM to actual amps while welding to compare the two.

Instead of worrying about gauging RPM, just measure wire spool off with the gun pressed for 15 seconds and multiply the length of the despooled wire by 4 to get inches per minute. Just roll it back on when you finish each test. This is a more accurate way.

232 in/min at 23.0V and amps set to 140A
260 in/min at 23.0V and amps set to 150A
I look and the roller and drive do not slip I made 3 test on both amps above difference was only 1/2 in. It is not even close to the 400+in/min you wanted it took 202A to get over the 400 in/min mark, it was 406 in/min at 23.0V. average on 4 takes.

[performance]

Now I see the issue. I myself, made a typo. It should have been 200 ipm...not 400 ipm....or wait, maybe it was when I thought you were using a smaller wire diameter.

[Kempy]

Miller site on calculating Spray Arc Transfer with Aluminum Wire : (http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...calculator.php)
Aluminum 1/8 Thick
Wire size .035" (0.9 mm) at 350-400 ipm
Wire size .045" (1.2 mm) at 240-270 ipm (140-150A to get 232-260 ipm this the best I can get)
Volts 21-22
Amps 110-130
Gas 100% Argon

Aluminum 3/16 Thick
Wire size .035" (0.9 mm) at 425-450 ipm
Wire size .045" (1.2 mm) at 300-325 ipm
Volts 23-24
Amps 140-150 (140-150A I get 232-260 ipm they want 300-325 ipm)
Gas 100% Argon

Aluminum 1/4 Thick
Wire size .045" (1.2 mm) at 350-375 ipm
Volts 24-25 amperage
Amps 180-210
Gas 100% Argon

Aluminum 5/16 Thick
Wire size .045" (1.2 mm) at 400-425 ipm
Volts 26-27 amperage
Amps 200-230
Gas 100% Argon

[Kempy]

I will test one more time tomorrow and have someone watching the machine to see what it is doing.

[Kempy]

Selected SYN Spool set volts to 22.0V amps to 186A wire type to SS wire size to .030 save on #9 Memory
Turn machine OFF and ON SYN Spool volts is now at 26.0V, amps same 186A wire type to SS wire size to .030 still on #9.
Cycle thru 9 back to 9 SYN Spool volts now 25.0V, amps same 186A wire type to SS wire size to .030
Cycle thru Select SYN Spool back to SYN Spool volts now at 21.4V, amps still the same 186A wire type to SS wire size to .030 still on #9.
Go to SYN Spool wire type Alum. Wire size Auto .045 ON OFF machine always goes to 25.9V or 26.0V or Cycle thru 9 back to 9 to SYN Spool 25.9V from 22.0V
The Memory has a hard time saving Volts. You can use any number is does the same thing slightly different in Volts.

[Kempy]

Well I have found the way to avoid 802 code but now the memory settings 1 to 9 do not work they will not save the setting you put in anything Stick, Mig or Tig but the welder works very well. Time to get the note book out and put down what works again.

[zoama]

Well I have found the way to avoid 802 code but now the memory settings 1 to 9 do not work they will not save the setting you put in anything Stick, Mig or Tig but the welder works very well. Time to get the note book out and put down what works again.

Since you just got this machine, wouldn't you be better off to have it replaced under warranty ?