Plasma Consumable Life

[DVA]

What type of plasma consumable life are you all getting with your Everlast equipment? I have read articles stating that some leading brands are getting 1000 starts with their consumables and have not heard much about Everlast plasma consumable life.

[geezer]

Not sure if the story of 1000 starts has any merit regardless of the brand,,,if we think about this issue and the variables involved,,such as what are we cutting how many amps,,who is the operator etc...I have had people including my self use my cutters and screw up a tip in no time and I had tips last a year or so,,,if we are talking about holding the torch and just pressing the trigger then that is another thing,,,never tried that,,

[performance]

I've seen where Hypertherm is claiming so much better increased life, but I have watched HT's in action and used them myself. I've watched one particular one I have in mind, in use on a CNC table, and it's making simple, long cuts, on a 4 x 8 sheet of metal every 3 inches or so and they have to change the cons out after about every plate. Good air pressure, dryer etc. are all installed. I've used their torches too with Miller equipment, and well, as geezer said, you can screw up a tip in no time. I've cut with them and "wore" out a tip in a couple of hours after a hundred or so starts.

These life tests are done with the optimum conditions for THEIR machines when they do tests on other's equipment to compare too as well.

Now with that said, the S-45 cons are pretty good life, IF the larger consumables are used for using a 50 amps. If not, they'll blow through in an 30 minutes or less...same with any brand unit with the wrong tips.

Trafimet has introduces a torch that they claim has longer start/cut life than any of it's competitors. It's the new s-65. It would probably be a better fit for our 50 amp machine, but is expensive and we do not carry it. It can work on our units now, but has to be ordered direct from trafimet.

[DVA]

I've seen where Hypertherm is claiming so much better increased life, but I have watched HT's in action and used them myself. I've watched one particular one I have in mind, in use on a CNC table, and it's making simple, long cuts, on a 4 x 8 sheet of metal every 3 inches or so and they have to change the cons out after about every plate. Good air pressure, dryer etc. are all installed. I've used their torches too with Miller equipment, and well, as geezer said, you can screw up a tip in no time. I've cut with them and "wore" out a tip in a couple of hours after a hundred or so starts.

These life tests are done with the optimum conditions for THEIR machines when they do tests on other's equipment to compare too as well.

Now with that said, the S-45 cons are pretty good life, IF the larger consumables are used for using a 50 amps. If not, they'll blow through in an 30 minutes or less...same with any brand unit with the wrong tips.

Trafimet has introduces a torch that they claim has longer start/cut life than any of it's competitors. It's the new s-65. It would probably be a better fit for our 50 amp machine, but is expensive and we do not carry it. It can work on our units now, but has to be ordered direct from trafimet.

Most material I will be cutting will be under 1/8 inch thickness so do not think that I need much more than a 50 amp machine like the Power Plasma 50. I would assume that most welding shops should have consumables for the trafimet torches? I will check with mine next time I stop in to see what they have available. I would hate purchasing something that has consumable parts that would need to be special ordered.

[SeanMurphy265]

These life tests are done with the optimum conditions for THEIR machines when they do tests on other's equipment to compare too as well.

Optimum conditions are the key! I will say that dry air makes a dramatic difference. I've owned a high frequency cutter with touch start that I felt had a good consumable life. A high frequency cutter with pilot arc that had a fair consumable life. A blowback cutter that I feel has had the best arc and consumable life. Without dry air I doubt you would see much difference in consumable life.

[DVA]

Optimum conditions are the key! I will say that dry air makes a dramatic difference. I've owned a high frequency cutter with touch start that I felt had a good consumable life. A high frequency cutter with pilot arc that had a fair consumable life. A blowback cutter that I feel has had the best arc and consumable life. Without dry air I doubt you would see much difference in consumable life.

I have heard that having dry air is one of the most important things. How large of a desiccant dryer is typically required to keep the air dry? I have seen some small dryers less than one foot in length and about four inch's diameter. This just seams too small.

[DaveO]

There have been a number of threads here on the forum about this- try a search using "dessicant" as search term. I'm limited to using my dumbphone just now (camping with Cub Scouts) or I'd post a link... if memory serves you can gin up a good dryer by modifying a HarbFrt model, or just use the HF dryer off the shelf.

[acourtjester]

Here is one I built for my table. I bought the large water filter from Lowe's and modified it with aluminum screen both input and output ports. I reversed directions of the air flow as I wanted to have a tube going to the bottom of the Silica Gel (MIMI cat litter from Wal-Mart) one bag will fill the filter $4.00.

[zoama]

Here is one I built for my table. I bought the large water filter from Lowe's and modified it with aluminum screen both input and output ports. I reversed directions of the air flow as I wanted to have a tube going to the bottom of the Silica Gel (MIMI cat litter from Wal-Mart) one bag will fill the filter $4.00.

How much pressure can it take ?

[Rambozo]

How much pressure can it take ?

From the photo it looks like the Whirlpool model WHKF-DWHBB which is rated to 100 psi.

[zoama]

From the photo it looks like the Whirlpool model WHKF-DWHBB which is rated to 100 psi.

Thanks, I just might try one of those.

[In Utopia]

This is what I did.
Left the wound filter in, added some color changing beads the chunk desiccant doesn't change color.


This is the desiccant I used. Got it on Craig's for $25.


Also installed a Motor Guard filter at the plasma cutter.
Been running them on two compressors without incident.

And no, I didn't wear a helmet when learning how to ride a bike, and no training wheels either.

[brucer]

You get better consumable performance from clean dry air as others have stated...

But at that point I will disagree with the comparison between a trafimet consumables being anywhere near as good as Thermal Dynamics and Hypertherm..

I've owned a 40 amp import plasma unit with a trafimet s45, I now own a thermal dynamics cutmaster 52 and have operated a 200amp hypertherm which was set at 100amp due to input power availability... All were used on a cnc plasma table, the Trafimet s45 was on the 40amp import plasma cutter (on my table) and it doesnt hold a candle to the thermal dynamics cm 52 with the sl60 torch (I recently bought the TD52 to replace the 40amp import unit).. If you hold both consumable sets in your hand comparing them, the trafimet consumables compared to the Thermal dynamics sl60 consumables you can feel and see the difference in quality and even the density in the materials used and also the quality in machining of the consumables, the thermal dynamics consumables are hands down superior in every way, and you can tell by looking at them that they isolate heat in the tip far better than the trafimet consumables... The hypertherm consumables are along the same lines as the thermal dynamics, even the pm45 consumables compare with the thermal dynamics, but the hypertherm consumables are a bit heavier and thicker, which I think would isolate heat at the tip even better..

as far as consumable life as a total, the trafimet s45 sucks compared the TD 52 with sl60 torch, and the Thermal dynamics sl100 machine torch is suppose to be even better for consumable life.. Referring to the hypertherm machine that I set up, I stopped by and was talking to the owner a few weeks ago and he was amazed how long the consumables last in his machine, but it is a heavy duty industrial unit and the machine torch is huge.


The 40amp import unit I owned was one of the more popular import brands and a direct rivalry of everlast, my machine was black, if that tells you anything.. It served its purpose, and it worked fine.. I used it to set up my home built plasma table then used it light duty on my cnc table, then after a while I simply needed more capacity.. I chose the td52 because of my limited budget and couldnt afford the hypertherm pm45, plus the td52 is actually a 60amp machine and has more kw output than the pm45 and the TD is much cheaper, and I was tired of the lacking support of these import resellers..

For an example, I can over quadruple the output of a compared part count with the cutmaster52 compared to the 40amp import.. In no way am I downing the import unit, it did its job and for what I had in it it was a great machine, and the new owner also loves it.. I should have kept it and used it as my dedicated manual plasma cutter..

I have found out in the plasma cutter industry, you simply get what you pay for, I think the quality and design of the torch is what makes about 80% to 90% of the overall cut quality and consumable life of a plasma cutter.. The Trafimet s45 is just old technology and it shows.

[performance]

Brucer,
You overlook key factors. Genuine consumables. Consumables can be made of many different copper alloys. The genuine are noticeably heavier. The design of the unit, with the appropriate voltage at the given amps for optimized output and several other things make a difference as well. The current ramp up, pilot arc current, amount of pilot arc use etc all come in play. The TD torch you site is a a higher amperage torch, and you'd expect them to be heavier.

Not sure why you are here, as a longevity customer. Not an Everlast owner. Reseller, may be right with other companies, such as Thermadyne/Victor as they buy off the shelf product (as I have their factories catalog at hand and well...lets say a good paint job and a plastic sticker is about all they do) but we're not a reseller in the sense you are using. In fact we're in our factory RIGHT NOW in production as we commonly are. We've developed a special line of product. Yes other companies in the world have their product produced in the same factory, but we have unique, special and vastly different lines. You can see similarities in some things, but we've literally spent 100's of thousands of dollars in regard to development of our unique line...and for our size that's a lot. You can use that term in a derogatory manner but please not toward us.

As far as the torch we have new torches with more advanced technology that shares a lot in common with other major competitors due out in early 2014.

You may not be aware of this, but we also sell plasma cutters up to 100 amps, and use a heavy 140 amp torch on it. Built by trafimet, but just as heavy as anything else you'd find.

I've been using a trafimet S-45 torch for 12 years, going on 13 now. It holds up and though its not with an Everlast, I've cut a whole week with the same consumables. As I said, there's a lot that you have to compare when you say that. I've used Hypertherm and Thermadyne plasma cutters and at times because of conditions and application gotten less consumable life than I ever got out of an S-45. Not saying the S-45 is better, but those blanket statements really need closer scrutiny.

[brucer]

Brucer,
You overlook key factors. Genuine consumables. Consumables can be made of many different copper alloys. The genuine are noticeably heavier. The design of the unit, with the appropriate voltage at the given amps for optimized output and several other things make a difference as well. The current ramp up, pilot arc current, amount of pilot arc use etc all come in play. The TD torch you site is a a higher amperage torch, and you'd expect them to be heavier.

Why do you think I used the term denser, you can pickup a TD consumable no matter if its a 40amp or 60 amp or 80amp and tell its denser and also machined better, that is called superior quality and materials, its logical from a production standpoint... plus the td consumables are made in USA, and for me that is a plus..

Not sure why you are here, as a longevity customer. Not an Everlast owner. Reseller, may be right with other companies, such as Thermadyne/Victor as they buy off the shelf product (as I have their factories catalog at hand and well...lets say a good paint job and a plastic sticker is about all they do) but we're not a reseller in the sense you are using. In fact we're in our factory RIGHT NOW in production as we commonly are. We've developed a special line of product. Yes other companies in the world have their product produced in the same factory, but we have unique, special and vastly different lines. You can see similarities in some things, but we've literally spent 100's of thousands of dollars in regard to development of our unique line...and for our size that's a lot. You can use that term in a derogatory manner but please not toward us.

I'm not a Longevity customer, I'm an Ex-Longevity customer, although it was a good machine I wanted to upgrade my cnc table plasma cutter and I chose the Thermal Dynamics CM52, it was a good fit from a economical and performance standpoint.. The reason I am here to read about product information and I also like to read on other peoples projects, and soon I will be in the market for a new tig welder and I was looking at possibly an Everlast but I think I will pass now..

As far as the torch we have new torches with more advanced technology that shares a lot in common with other major competitors due out in early 2014.

thats good, improvement is always good, no matter who you are.. Do you have these new torches now? You use to sell Trafimets with your units and that is why I was referring to Trafimet products and I though that is what the op was referring to.. If your not selling trafimet torches, you need to change your website to reflect the change in torches..

You may not be aware of this, but we also sell plasma cutters up to 100 amps, and use a heavy 140 amp torch on it. Built by trafimet, but just as heavy as anything else you'd find.

I'm aware, and I also own an old model hypertherm pac120 torch body and a large portion of consumables, and I know first hand that the quality is apparent, you evidently dont know or you wouldnt have said that..

I've been using a trafimet S-45 torch for 12 years, going on 13 now. It holds up and though its not with an Everlast, I've cut a whole week with the same consumables. As I said, there's a lot that you have to compare when you say that. I've used Hypertherm and Thermadyne plasma cutters and at times because of conditions and application gotten less consumable life than I ever got out of an S-45. Not saying the S-45 is better, but those blanket statements really need closer scrutiny.

I used the trafimet s45 torch for 2 years, although it did its job, the genuine trafimet torch and consumables are old technology and leave something to be desired, at least on my cnc plasma table with a Sharpe air dryer/filter and a reuseable desiccant filter mounted at the machine.. I didnt realize this until I replaced my old unit that had the trafimet s45 and upgraded to the TD52 with the sl60 torch. I know comparing the tips of the trafimet compared to the sl60 there is a big difference.. I also undertand that the sl60 torch is a larger torch than the s45, but I will bet you the tip of a comparable trafimet torch is thinner, which will not isolate heat as well as a comparable thermal dynamics torch which in turn will promote electrode wear..

I have one single, simple question.. If Everlast has spent all those hundreds of thousands of dollars researching, Why cant Everlast publish a cut speed chart for any of their plasma units?

[performance]

Brucer,
Did Longevity boot you off the forum over there?
Your pontification about things you really don't know and making arrogant remarks isn't winning you any friends, especially with customers here. I am not sure why you decided to show up? After the recent mashups over on WW, over the Longevity product, I guess you have a few moot points to point out? Or am I reading you wrong?

For your information, the Trafimet S-45 may be an older torch, but the technology behind it isn't that different from what's being put out. You are talking from a very limited experience. I am talking from years of real world use with a wide variety of product lines. I know that ESAB for example is still using the same basic torch they have for many years, and yes, they claim to have longer consumable life than all the others if you read their literature. Trafimet has an S-65 torch that is very similar to the S-45 but has some improvements that they say outlasts blue, gray and all the others. The thickness of the metal isn't necessarily going to "isolate" anything. RAther, the thinner the metal, the more rapidly heat will be carried away to prevent cooking.

You didn't correctly read what I said. The money we spent was in development. Not all development involves research in regards to a company. As far as the cut charts, why reinvent the wheel when there are plenty out there to go by, independent, name brand or otherwise? Why would that be a priority over improving quality control, unit streamlining, improving performance etc? We could do what the other guys do, and just copy some old text or buy the old text rights and print it out. But for customers wanting an economical purchase, that's an extra cost they have to pay for that's built into the price if we do so.

The TD consumables WERE made in the USA...or at least the package they put them in. lol. They have stockpiles of them at my local welding supply store...collecting dust...with a NEW chinese made cutmaster 42 sitting on the floor with a torch that is NO heavier than the S-45 because I went and disassembled the torch this week thanks to my buddy who runs the store. I wanted to make a personal comparison for just such comments. I even have pictures of it, which I will upload here just to prove what bull you are suggesting. Yes, took them on Wednesday, and as soon as I send them from my phone to my computer, I'll post them up so you and everyone can see how wrong you are. If anything, they were lighter and smaller than the S-45 consumables...with a torch that is basically rated for the same amps. A good apples for apples comparison for you to chew on, so to speak.

Again, you are comparing 60 amp consumables with 40-50 amp class consumables. You don't see an problem with that? Weight really doesn't factor into it.

The trafimet S-45 isn't the only blow back torch out there. But there's a reason it's popular. It's stood the test of time, and holds up and works well for the price.

You want to compare a TD/Victor plasma cutter with a much less expensive and smaller Everlast unit, go ahead. You are making a fool's comparison. We've got videos up to show the PowerPlasma 50 cutting an 1 1/8". While that's not what it's rated for, that's pretty good performance for the dollar. I've cut easily an 1 1/4" with the OLD PP 60 with the old chinese HF torch. I've cut an 1 1/2" with our PP 80 and it had more to spare with our old P80 torch.

As far as buying a TIG, I think that's a red herring for your true intentions. People on this forum are a lot smarter than their avatars would indicate.

[brucer]

Brucer,
Did Longevity boot you off the forum over there?
Your pontification about things you really don't know and making arrogant remarks isn't winning you any friends, especially with customers here. I am not sure why you decided to show up? After the recent mashups over on WW, over the Longevity product, I guess you have a few moot points to point out? Or am I reading you wrong?

I'm still on Longevity's forum, my Longevity unit was 40i and it worked fine and I will tell anyone of my experience with the Longevity unit. It actually worked pretty good for what I had in it, and the new owner also likes it very much.. I'm not here to win over people, nice try.. Its not just Longevity mashups huh, all people have to do is search through Everlasts section and see the exact same issues, on the first page even.. nothing like taking 3 months to service a machine huh?

For your information, the Trafimet S-45 may be an older torch, but the technology behind it isn't that different from what's being put out. You are talking from a very limited experience. I am talking from years of real world use with a wide variety of product lines. I know that ESAB for example is still using the same basic torch they have for many years, and yes, they claim to have longer consumable life than all the others if you read their literature. Trafimet has an S-65 torch that is very similar to the S-45 but has some improvements that they say outlasts blue, gray and all the others. The thickness of the metal isn't necessarily going to "isolate" anything. RAther, the thinner the metal, the more rapidly heat will be carried away to prevent cooking.

so the Esab pt37 and pt38 torches are old? The thinner material also promotes electrode wear, look at the leading manufacturers torch designs.. They use a halfnium insert to prevent that.

You didn't correctly read what I said. The money we spent was in development. Not all development involves research in regards to a company. As far as the cut charts, why reinvent the wheel when there are plenty out there to go by, independent, name brand or otherwise? Why would that be a priority over improving quality control, unit streamlining, improving performance etc? We could do what the other guys do, and just copy some old text or buy the old text rights and print it out. But for customers wanting an economical purchase, that's an extra cost they have to pay for that's built into the price if we do so.

It's one of two things, these import companies too cheap to afford the research for their own cut speed charts, or they are afraid to publish an actual chart because it will show slower "than advertised" cut speeds..

The TD consumables WERE made in the USA...or at least the package they put them in. lol. They have stockpiles of them at my local welding supply store...collecting dust...with a NEW chinese made cutmaster 42 sitting on the floor with a torch that is NO heavier than the S-45 because I went and disassembled the torch this week thanks to my buddy who runs the store. I wanted to make a personal comparison for just such comments. I even have pictures of it, which I will upload here just to prove what bull you are suggesting. Yes, took them on Wednesday, and as soon as I send them from my phone to my computer, I'll post them up so you and everyone can see how wrong you are. If anything, they were lighter and smaller than the S-45 consumables...with a torch that is basically rated for the same amps. A good apples for apples comparison for you to chew on, so to speak.

I have several packages of TD sl60 consumables (tips,electrodes and shield cups that ARE made in USA).. The ones you see were probably collecting dust because the TD units are that much better on consumable life.. I've been to 3 lws recently and everyone of them had TD consumables on the shelf that were all made in the USA. My Cutmaster 52 also wasnt made in China, do you want me to take pictures to prove it? I can walk out in my shop and take pictures also.. I cna also take some pictures of the hypertherm torch body and consumables, I will even sell them to you if you want them, I've already sold $400 worth of them on ebay..

Again, you are comparing 60 amp consumables with 40-50 amp class consumables. You don't see an problem with that? Weight really doesn't factor into it.

I know what I was comparing... I dont have any of the trafimet 60 amp tips or electrodes, but I would guess it would be the same result, especially on the tips.. and I'm also referencing a hand torch not a machine torch. I researched this quite a bit and also from running a hypertherm pm800, pm45, max200, thermal dynamics cutmaster52, a colossal tech 50amp unit.. I've used a couple plasma cutters over the years..

The trafimet S-45 isn't the only blow back torch out there. But there's a reason it's popular. It's stood the test of time, and holds up and works well for the price.

Yep there are several blow back torches on the market... And there is a reason the trafimet torches are on cheap import plasma cutters. They work decentl, they are cheap, parts are cheap and even available at harbor freight, which make the overall price cheaper on the import unit.. and why is Hypertherm, Esab and Thermal Dynamics the leading manufacturers of Plasma cutters and welding equipment?

You want to compare a TD/Victor plasma cutter with a much less expensive and smaller Everlast unit, go ahead. You are making a fool's comparison. We've got videos up to show the PowerPlasma 50 cutting an 1 1/8". While that's not what it's rated for, that's pretty good performance for the dollar. I've cut easily an 1 1/4" with the OLD PP 60 with the old chinese HF torch. I've cut an 1 1/2" with our PP 80 and it had more to spare with our old P80 torch.

I would gladly compare a 60amp Everlast unit to my Cutmaster 52, doesnt bother me one bit.. I will put both units on my cnc plasma table and compare them all day long.. The 60amp Everlast isnt any cheaper when you factor in shipping.. Is Everlast now offering free shipping and free shipping on warranty issues if they arise? Sure you can cut stuff thicker than what a machine is rated for, but its not feasible, and if you cut much with it over its rated capacity you will run out of duty cycle sooner or later and either trip a breaker or burn the unit up.. I've cut 1 1/4" plate with a $300 Colossal tech plasma cutter whats your point, or are you making a fools comparison?

As far as buying a TIG, I think that's a red herring for your true intentions.

Actually I was looking at and comparing ac/dc tig welders, I sold my old Thermal Arc 185 earlier this year and bought a Thermal Arc 211i, then saved up some more money and finally got the Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52. You know how it goes when your upgrading equipment.. plus these days its tough saving up that kind of money, at least for me it is.. Maybe I'll just get another Thermal Dynamics unit, they have performed quite well for me over the years.

People on this forum are a lot smarter than their avatars would indicate.

Yea, there are some smart and talented people on this forum and forums all over the internet, even over on hobby-machinist, welding web, pirate 4x4, jalopy journal, killbillet and so on, thats why I frequent different forums.. I'm also a bit smarter than the average bear, and I'm a bit more experienced than the average weekend welder.. Your not talking to some guy that just recently decided to start welding and fabricating.. and you would be the Fool to assume that...

There are also idiots on the internet, or am I a fool to assume that?

[fdcmiami]

[There are also idiots on the internet, or am I a fool to assume that?

definitely not brucer, you are proof positive of that. what is the matter? you aren't happy with the fact that you have 4k posts on WW and have not received a prize? lol

i guess that is why you are here. the problem is you have to be an owner to be eligible for one of the discounts on or award of an everlast machine.

"smarter than the average bear", so i guess you are smarter than yogi but dumber than boo boo. lol

efn nutcases out there.

[performance]

Cheap imports like Snap On, Hobart, and HTP and host of others respectable companies?
Hafnium Yes! Our consumables use hafnium manufactured by Haas. Bet no one over on the black side told you that.
1400.00 on the cheap from Victor versus less than a grand for a PP 60? Your math must be fuzzy. If you want free shipping go to Amazon prime: 899.00 shipped.
TD doesn't offer free shipping to a repair center either if you have to make a repair.

BUT....We do cover shipping both ways for 30 days. Most deaths of electronics happen soon after you start using them. On CNC this would be ferreted out pretty quickly. Infant death is part of the electronics industry for everyone.
Take the cover off the unit and photograph the internals for a True "made in" picture if you want to be honest.
Glad you liked the TA 211i, since that's the the basic unit we were selling 2 years before they started selling it. Pictures of it and the manuals are still on our site.

And the cutmaster 42 is made in China, and most of the 52, and all the others...You can't get around that fact.

Our ratings on our units are conservative, intentionally. Duty Cycle has nothing to do with it. I have videos of our units cutting thousands of 1" diameter holes in plate all day long for days during non stop testing.

[Mr120]

definitely not brucer, you are proof positive of that. what is the matter? you aren't happy with the fact that you have 4k posts on WW and have not received a prize? lol

i guess that is why you are here. the problem is you have to be an owner to be eligible for one of the discounts on or award of an everlast machine.

"smarter than the average bear", so i guess you are smarter than yogi but dumber than boo boo. lol

efn nutcases out there.

Thank-you fdcmiami. You took the words right out of my mouth. I'm all for learning but brucer's points are now just mudslinging and "my red wagon is brighter than yours" ....