Plasma Consumable Life

[performance]

Here's an apples for apples picture I promised.
Those consumables don't look any bigger or thicker than the S-45 to me. The torch is about the same size in girth, a little longer in length.

[Rambozo]

[fdcmiami]

Thank-you fdcmiami. You took the words right out of my mouth. I'm all for learning but brucer's points are now just mudslinging and "my red wagon is brighter than yours" ....

yeah, brucer has been on a tear on the ww. (sorry to pull this off topic) seriously though if you are going to be telling people how smart you are and you want to illustrate that fact by quoting a famous personality, then please, go to bartlett's or some other collection of quotes to find your example; not a line from one of hannah -barberas animated cartoon characters.

geeee, iii don't know yogi. mr ranger is not going to like that. lol. took me back fifty years or more. lol


on a more serious note i personally like everlast and their products. have had no issues with customer service and only recently oleg did me a really good turn for which i am deeply appreciative. you can tell the company is pulling ahead by the lack of ranters on the ww board and here as well. with the exception of the occasional stray inmate who slipped through an open gate at jellystone.

[Rambozo]

[brucer]

definitely not brucer, you are proof positive of that. what is the matter? you aren't happy with the fact that you have 4k posts on WW and have not received a prize? lol

I'm not on forums for a prize, evidently you must be or you wouldnt have said anything about it, but you dont have a prize either, and you even own one.. so whos the nutcase now?

i guess that is why you are here. the problem is you have to be an owner to be eligible for one of the discounts on or award of an everlast machine.

Who would want to own one, when you have to wait 3 months for a warranty repair ?

"smarter than the average bear", so i guess you are smarter than yogi but dumber than boo boo. lol

efn nutcases out there.

yep, there sure are, and you've proven it..

[brucer]

Cheap imports like Snap On, Hobart, and HTP and host of others respectable companies?

uh yea, snap-on equals overpriced junk owned a 40amp one about 10yrs ago it was apos, Hobart plasma cutters were underpowered junk and everyone knows that, havent seen enough of htp, but I've at least heard good things about their customer support and warranty. Are their new units using trafimet torches?

Hafnium Yes! Our consumables use hafnium manufactured by Haas. Bet no one over on the black side told you that.

could care less what screw machine the halfnium inserts are made in, and in my trade, Haas machines are throw away junk, yep Haas are not that good in the machine trade world.. I replaced spindles in 3 of them that were 2 yrs old, then we sold them and bought new Leblond high speed machining centers and an Okk. Bet no one on the green side has told you that about Haas machines...

1400.00 on the cheap from Victor versus less than a grand for a PP 60? Your math must be fuzzy. If you want free shipping go to Amazon prime: 899.00 shipped.
TD doesn't offer free shipping to a repair center either if you have to make a repair.

I take my machine back to where I bought it and they take care of it. I also have a regional service center about 20miles from me, they also happen to service thermal dynamics units, the service rep told me himself, Dan was a nice guy.

BUT....We do cover shipping both ways for 30 days. Most deaths of electronics happen soon after you start using them. On CNC this would be ferreted out pretty quickly. Infant death is part of the electronics industry for everyone.

it is to a point, but at 30 days your covering shipping issues, electronics will usually go within the first year of operation...

Take the cover off the unit and photograph the internals for a True "made in" picture if you want to be honest.

show me any electronic component that doesnt have Japanese, German, and Chinese components in it.

Glad you liked the TA 211i, since that's the the basic unit we were selling 2 years before they started selling it. Pictures of it and the manuals are still on our site.

I bet Everlast use cheaper components and hardware on their units, things such as mig gun, tig torch (if even supplied with the unit), ground clamp, chinese regulator, probably cheaper wiring, rotary dials, and switches. I'll take the victor technologies components any day, I love that tweco gun, and victor regulator, the tweco hood was ok, it worked pretty good and had good clarity I think the headgear will be lacking over time though..I wish I wouldnt have bought the tig torch that come with the machine though, I like the ck17 torch much better.

And the cutmaster 42 is made in China, and most of the 52, and all the others...You can't get around that fact.

My new cutmaster 52 was not made in China. where are Everlast units made, and where are the consumables made, and where are the other components made?

Our ratings on our units are conservative, intentionally. Duty Cycle has nothing to do with it. I have videos of our units cutting thousands of 1" diameter holes in plate all day long for days during non stop testing.

If duty cycle has nothing to do with it then video it making a 10ft long cut in 3/4" plate and show us the results..

Luggy I know you get paid to defend Everlast, its understandable.. Thats why I figured when I posted my original reply being truthful about consumable life you would be quick to retort and defend what your employer is selling.

Why does Everlast have to pay for a sponsored section with moderator rights in other forums, hiding something? Why does Everlast have half of every page taken up with stickied posts? Why does Everlast delete negative posts from their own customers? You want to be truthful, then be truthful, you sound like a politician.

included pictures: individual consumable packages, havent opened them yet, my torch came loaded.. you can see a tip in one of the pictures, you cant see the electrodes the package is in the way. I had the shield cup out of package making a torch mount for it, I can get a picture of it also if you need one.

[brucer]

Here's an apples for apples picture I promised.
Those consumables don't look any bigger or thicker than the S-45 to me. The torch is about the same size in girth, a little longer in length.

I can tell by looking at the picture of the tips, there is a difference, quite a difference in lengths on all the parts.. The electrodes are a completely different design from the trafimet s45 to the Thermal Dynamics sl40, the trafimet electrodes look to be about 1/2" shorter, maybe more... The shield cup is completely different and looks to be a bit larger and completely different material on the sl40.. I like the start cartridge better than swirl rings.. The distance from the electrode tip to the torch body looks quite a bit different between the two torches.

and in your previous post about the htp, yes their smaller unit uses the trafimet torch, their microcut600 uses the same torch as the Longevity 42i, their 875 looks like they are using the thermal dynamics torch.

[performance]

Actually Brucer, We used a more expensive torch for MIG, and an equally expensive one for TIG. The knobs and dials and components were the same.

And the Hobart cutters are made on the same line as the Millers, only the Millers use an eastern european torch and the Hobarts use the S-45.

You are confusing design with quality and weight. There's a difference in design. Shield cups are about the same. The S45 seemed to have more brass. The start cartridge is about same diameter as our swirl ring, and function in part the same. The reason the electrode is longer is because it doesn't screw into anything and has to recede into the housing to be held in place, and on the S-45 instead of a start cartridge, the unit has a spring loaded piston which the electrode screws into. In fact a lot of people complain about the start cartridge design because it wears out and sticks. Spring tension on this one was a lot lighter than the S45......but some people like it. It's just a different way to do the same thing. The length of the tips is negligible because the S-45 has 3 tip lengths, and styles. I have used them all. This is the medium one...and they did/or currently make a long life cup for the torch. I know they still do on several models.

The forum is sponsored by the two companies. It is not cheap to operate, and the forum has been for sale. You might ask the other companies why they don't step in a support it. But they are making enough off us to make it worth their effort to keep it open for now. Some of those ingrates who don't understand economics over there keep touting, a paid forum membership and other ways to pay. Great way to really kill things off and make that a place of "us only". Their viewership has plummeted from all evidence, not because of us, but because of vultures on their perches waiting to swoop down and attack anything they think is weaker than them.


Brucer
The only thing we delete is 1) posts by the peanut gallery like you who have no skin in the game and non germane posts that don't help resolve the issue. 2) Posts and threads that are closed service matters that customers have given permission to close and or delete...that have no valuable technical content. If they didn't give us permission or didn't have the problem resolved satisfactorily, don't you think they'd be coming back and saying "Hey why was my thread closed?" You don't see that.

But on rare occasion, very rare, here we do ban people...I'd say you are approaching your limit with your diatribe that has no base in reality, and when confronted with truth, you deny or throw up red herrings, or outright lie.

[brucer]

The forum is sponsored by the two companies. It is not cheap to operate, and the forum has been for sale. You might ask the other companies why they don't step in a support it. But they are making enough off us to make it worth their effort to keep it open for now. Some of those ingrates who don't understand economics over there keep touting, a paid forum membership and other ways to pay. Great way to really kill things off and make that a place of "us only". Their viewership has plummeted from all evidence, not because of us, but because of vultures on their perches waiting to swoop down and attack anything they think is weaker than them.

That forum is not sponsored by the two companies because Penton cant afford it, it is sponsored by the two companies because the two companies want to have a web presence there simply because of the volume of traffic on welding web, simply for marketing, and Everlast and the other company paid an premium price for a presence there, also for the fact Everlast had to pay for admin rights to its sponsored section, and you know it... A forum is not expensive to own and operate and you know it. you can go to godaddy and have one hosted and running within a day, and forum software costs probably around $500 for an extensive package but can be bought for probably around $150 with a year of technical support and upgrades..

But on rare occasion, very rare, here we do ban people...I'd say you are approaching your limit with your diatribe that has no base in reality, and when confronted with truth, you deny or throw up red herrings, or outright lie.

Honestly I could care less.. The only reason I replied to the op was to give him the facts, which can easily be proven.... and you jump in with the normal Everlast lies and excuses..

[brucer]

to the op, there is a simple explanation why Everlast does not publish a cut speed chart. They dont have the time and resources for it.. Plasma torches are not designed and created equal so other companies cut charts will not work with a different companies equipment, all you have to do is compare cutspeed charts from the top 3 plasma manufacturers and you will see a significant difference in pierce and cut heights which greatly effect dross, angularity, pierce times and cut quality.

as an example my Cutmaster 52 will cut 1/4" and 3/8" plate at the Thermal Dynamics published cut speed. 190 pierce height and .190 stand off orcut height and completely different feed rates..
Hypertherms pierce height and cut height and feed rates are completely different..
and Esabs are completely different.
all using comparable power supplies but each manufacturer has their own torch design, which greatly changes cutting parameters.


For an Example, without a cut speed chart for your specific import plasma cutter, your cutting parameters for you specific machine and torch model with greatly differ, which in turn will drastically reduce your consumable life even more.. anyone that says that this is incorrect dont know what they are talking about.

[fdcmiami]

thanks for helping us out bruce!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pqyax6gwzQ

[geezer]

All this talk about who makes the best torch,,consumables etc. etc. is just so much blow,,,like guys that read hustler and playboy and think they are great lovers,,,having never been on a date with a lady,,
Bottom line,,,hand held torchs can give any result due to operator ability,,,,CNC torches can vary depending on the set up,,,best thing to do is keep plenty of replacement parts on hand,,,cause if things can go wrong they will go wrong,,

[fdcmiami]

All this talk about who makes the best torch,,consumables etc. etc. is just so much blow,,,like guys that read hustler and playboy and think they are great lovers,,,having never been on a date with a lady,,
Bottom line,,,hand held torchs can give any result due to operator ability,,,,CNC torches can vary depending on the set up,,,best thing to do is keep plenty of replacement parts on hand,,,cause if things can go wrong they will go wrong,,

you got that right geezer. on the ability of the operator and the extra parts. surely there must be another venue worthy of bruce's attention. he's not even an everlast owner.

did you get yourself a mag drill?

sorry about the yogi theme song, couldn't resist but it's too late for me to edit it.

[performance]

Vbulletin needs a "like" button.

[Rambozo]

Vbulletin needs a "like" button.

Very true, and the inverse, of course.

[geezer]

you got that right geezer. on the ability of the operator and the extra parts. surely there must be another venue worthy of bruce's attention. he's not even an everlast owner.

did you get yourself a mag drill?

sorry about the yogi theme song, couldn't resist but it's too late for me to edit it.

Yes on the mag drill,,,got an MD45 with vari speed and anular cutter set,,,now if I could just find a use for it,,,,lots of power in that thing,,,just haven't figured out how I'm gonna use it,,other than bragging I have one,,,

[Titan winch]

Actually while what you say may have some merit to a certain point ,you are actually mistaken in your assumption. I have been testing the Techno torch ( supplied with your black model ) and I used the Techno consumables ( not impressed with them in addition I also used the 2
S45 consumables from both trafimet and our own supplier in China on the pt 60 techno torch and I found our suppliers consumables to be superior to both the techno and original trafimet parts.
You are probably not aware of the fact that your old model plasma torch is interchangeable with trafimet they are also a lot denser to that of both Trafimet and Techno ( innotech) cons.
Cheers

You get better consumable performance from clean dry air as others have stated...

But at that point I will disagree with the comparison between a trafimet consumables being anywhere near as good as Thermal Dynamics and Hypertherm..

I've owned a 40 amp import plasma unit with a trafimet s45, I now own a thermal dynamics cutmaster 52 and have operated a 200amp hypertherm which was set at 100amp due to input power availability... All were used on a cnc plasma table, the Trafimet s45 was on the 40amp import plasma cutter (on my table) and it doesnt hold a candle to the thermal dynamics cm 52 with the sl60 torch (I recently bought the TD52 to replace the 40amp import unit).. If you hold both consumable sets in your hand comparing them, the trafimet consumables compared to the Thermal dynamics sl60 consumables you can feel and see the difference in quality and even the density in the materials used and also the quality in machining of the consumables, the thermal dynamics consumables are hands down superior in every way, and you can tell by looking at them that they isolate heat in the tip far better than the trafimet consumables... The hypertherm consumables are along the same lines as the thermal dynamics, even the pm45 consumables compare with the thermal dynamics, but the hypertherm consumables are a bit heavier and thicker, which I think would isolate heat at the tip even better..

as far as consumable life as a total, the trafimet s45 sucks compared the TD 52 with sl60 torch, and the Thermal dynamics sl100 machine torch is suppose to be even better for consumable life.. Referring to the hypertherm machine that I set up, I stopped by and was talking to the owner a few weeks ago and he was amazed how long the consumables last in his machine, but it is a heavy duty industrial unit and the machine torch is huge.


The 40amp import unit I owned was one of the more popular import brands and a direct rivalry of everlast, my machine was black, if that tells you anything.. It served its purpose, and it worked fine.. I used it to set up my home built plasma table then used it light duty on my cnc table, then after a while I simply needed more capacity.. I chose the td52 because of my limited budget and couldnt afford the hypertherm pm45, plus the td52 is actually a 60amp machine and has more kw output than the pm45 and the TD is much cheaper, and I was tired of the lacking support of these import resellers..

For an example, I can over quadruple the output of a compared part count with the cutmaster52 compared to the 40amp import.. In no way am I downing the import unit, it did its job and for what I had in it it was a great machine, and the new owner also loves it.. I should have kept it and used it as my dedicated manual plasma cutter..

I have found out in the plasma cutter industry, you simply get what you pay for, I think the quality and design of the torch is what makes about 80% to 90% of the overall cut quality and consumable life of a plasma cutter.. The Trafimet s45 is just old technology and it shows.

[brucer]

Actually while what you say may have some merit to a certain point ,you are actually mistaken in your assumption. I have been testing the Techno torch ( supplied with your black model ) and I used the Techno consumables ( not impressed with them in addition I also used the 2
S45 consumables from both trafimet and our own supplier in China on the pt 60 techno torch and I found our suppliers consumables to be superior to both the techno and original trafimet parts.

I dont own a black unit.. I use to own a 40i with a Trafimet S45 torch and used it on my cnc plasma table for a short time... I recently replaced it with a Thermal Dynamics Cutamster 52 with the SL60 torch.. I have never owned the 42i with the TecMo PT60 torch. techno http://www.tecmo.it/eng/ricambi.html HTP also uses the TecMo torch on their microcut 600 unit.

You are probably not aware of the fact that your old model plasma torch is interchangeable with trafimet they are also a lot denser to that of both Trafimet and Techno ( innotech) cons.
Cheers

The 40i black unit I previously owned had a Trafimet torch, I hope it would take Trafimet parts, I also used Trafimet consumables and the cheaper chinese import consumables from riverweld on ebay, and also tried the harbor freight consumables, they were all relatively the same, although the trafimet consumables were a bit better.

My original post which you quoted was directed at the OP.. My original post was also my direct comparison and direct experience with the Trafimet s45 torch (which I did own and use) and the Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52 with SL60 that I currently own.

The S45torch is an decent economical choice for an economical plasma cutter package, but that is about it.. There are better torch designs which promote better cut quality and better consumable life, you and I both know this, even newer 40amp torch designs perform better.. You wouldnt be testing newer torch designs if you didnt know it... I havent looked at Everlasts current plasma cutter offerings but I would assume Everlast uses better torch designs on their newer units.


Now, If you go back and read my original post you will clearly see my direct comment comparing the Trafimet S45 to my current SL60 torch..

as far as consumable life as a total, the trafimet s45 sucks compared the TD 52 with sl60 torch

also In my original post, I never said anything about any Everlast product at any point.. I was simply sharing my actual experience comparing the Trafimet SL45 consumable life to the Thermal Dynamics SL60 torch I currently own.

Then, for some reason some dumba$$ felt the need to jump in and get defensive not to mention injecting irrelevant content into the conversation.. I wont even comment about the others as they didn't add anything useful to the conversation.