General stick welding question

[its_34]

OK, I picked up a 1lb box of 1/8" 6013 Lincoln Fleetweld 57 at Home Depot on my way home tonight. I'm going to give this a shot this weekend. Looking at the box, I see AC/DC+/-. So what do I try first?

[DaveO]

I found a Lincoln pdf here
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...d37/c21019.pdf

...that says "preferred polarity is listed first". The pdf also offers current ranges, if that helps. Let us know how it goes!

[its_34]

I found a Lincoln pdf here
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...d37/c21019.pdf

...that says "preferred polarity is listed first". The pdf also offers current ranges, if that helps. Let us know how it goes!

Thanks, that is helpful. I'll follow that guide and try both AC & DC for comparison and post some pics of the results (please be kind!). Should polarity make a difference if both DC + & - are listed?

[its_34]

Well, I gave it a try today and it was actually kind of fun. I'm not proud of these, but I said I would post...


First 3 were at 110a AC, next were 110a DC-, on 1/8" scrap plate. I quickly realized that welding toward myself was making it very tough to control the arc height, let alone see it well, so I changed to a left-to-right drag and the bead consistency improved. I switched back to AC for the last 3.



Technique must be key to quality since (other than amps) all setting adjustments are made with the hand. This is a learned skill, I hope!

[its_34]

These were some more on the back side. Trying to maintain more consistent angle and height.


I think the one in the middle was my best. Start and end quality are a whole 'nother project.


My hat's off to those of you that produce nice, mig-like welds. This isn't easy!

[performance]

It would weld a whole lot better if you were using DC+, which is the preferred polarity for most rods.

[its_34]

It would weld a whole lot better if you were using DC+, which is the preferred polarity for most rods.

Thanks, I'll try that tomorrow and report back. I'm sure most of my problems are related to lack of experience, but I'll try any setting changes that might help.

[joshuab]

Basically every rod that can be welded on AC, can also be welded on DC. I don't know of any exceptions, but I don't know everything, so maybe there is one. If you have a DC-capable welder, you will pretty much always get better results on DC than AC, and you should pretty much always weld on DC-electrode-positive. As for dragging vs. pushing, the rule is, "if it has slag, you drag." So stick rods and flux-core MIG: drag. The purpose is to let the arc force push the slag back from the puddle while the slag solidifies.

If you are going to weld with 1/8" rods on 1/8" scrap, you are going to have some challenges. It is 100% doable, but it's not where I would start a beginner. You don't seem to have had many issues with burning through, so that's good, but the real issue is that the piece heats up so fast that the puddle characteristics change rapidly in the middle of your weld, or from bead to bead, making it hard to tell if you're doing things right. I would suggest getting a piece of 1/4" plate or flat stock, if you can.

Finally, running beads on plate is all well and good, but you really learn best actually welding in a joint. Consider getting a piece of 1/4" flat stock and then cutting it into 12" strips and setting up butt or fillet joints. If you don't want to bevel the edges, you can leave a gap between the pieces slightly less than one rod-thickness (1/8" in your case) wide, and it will do an okay job of letting you get penetration.

[its_34]

Basically every rod that can be welded on AC, can also be welded on DC. I don't know of any exceptions, but I don't know everything, so maybe there is one. If you have a DC-capable welder, you will pretty much always get better results on DC than AC, and you should pretty much always weld on DC-electrode-positive. As for dragging vs. pushing, the rule is, "if it has slag, you drag." So stick rods and flux-core MIG: drag. The purpose is to let the arc force push the slag back from the puddle while the slag solidifies.

If you are going to weld with 1/8" rods on 1/8" scrap, you are going to have some challenges. It is 100% doable, but it's not where I would start a beginner. You don't seem to have had many issues with burning through, so that's good, but the real issue is that the piece heats up so fast that the puddle characteristics change rapidly in the middle of your weld, or from bead to bead, making it hard to tell if you're doing things right. I would suggest getting a piece of 1/4" plate or flat stock, if you can.

Finally, running beads on plate is all well and good, but you really learn best actually welding in a joint. Consider getting a piece of 1/4" flat stock and then cutting it into 12" strips and setting up butt or fillet joints. If you don't want to bevel the edges, you can leave a gap between the pieces slightly less than one rod-thickness (1/8" in your case) wide, and it will do an okay job of letting you get penetration.

Thanks, those are helpful tips. I definitely saw the effects of plate thickness as the plate curled up quite a bit after 3-4 passes. I'll look and see if I have anything thicker but I generally work with stuff that's 1/8 or less.

I did grab a couple of scraps and butt them together but they were really short and did not teach me much. The repeated beads helped me practice arc starts which were not always easy.

[youngnstudly]

If you want to jump in feet first, 4-sided fillet blocks are a great way to master laying beads down. Once your beads look good there, you can feel confident enough to weld almost any project with a good success rate. You don't use any material to speak off and you can mix the electrodes up between size and class without issue. The average fillet block will accept 100 beads very easily (depending on what size you make yours) and it really doesn't take long to fill one up (an afternoon of practice will get you there). Flip the block into any position you want to practice welding in, and start burning rod!

For practicing at home, I would make the fillet block using 1 piece of 4" wide 3/8" thick flat bar, and 2 pieces of 2" wide (3/8" thick) flat bar, each piece 6-8" in length (all 4 pieces equal length). Lay the 4" strip flat on your table, and tack one of the 2" strips to the 4" strip so that it forms a "T" when you look at it from the end, then add the 2nd 2" strip to the other side of the "T" so that you now have a "+" when you view the end (cross sectional view). Start your practice beads by welding one bead down the center of the (6-8" long) valley, then weld 2 beads over the single bead, then 3 over the top of the 2, etc. Each "V" groove of your block should take 7-10 beads wide by the time you get to the top (unless you jam more over the top of that). Plenty of starts and stops along the way, so you get to practice your restarts. Just how I was taught when prepping for certifications years back, and I think it's a good way to experiment and get good when learning to stick weld.

[its_34]

I did find a 3/8" thick stake that I'm going to cut up and try weld back together, this time on DC+.

The block exercise sounds like what I need but mastery is not likely in my future. Honestly, I started this wondering why I would ever utilize the stick capability of my welder. The responses made me take it a step further and want to try it, and now I won't be happy until I make some decent welds.

[DaveO]

You may find the going a bit easier now that you're on DC+ and have a heavier workpiece to use that 1/8" rod on. It'll be another tool in the toolbox, as someone mentioned earlier.

[its_34]

As suggested, DC+ and heavier material made things much easier. I cut a 3/8" stake into 2 strips, butted them together with a small gap and ran a bead down the center. I seemed to get much better feedback with changes to the arc height and angle. I do struggle when starting the rod at full length (my hands are not too steady) but the second and third beads went better and I was better at adjusting position as the rod was consumed. Still not pretty, but I have a better feel for it.

Thanks for all the tips, everyone. This has been a great intro to stick and I'll revisit the process when time permits or if the right need arises.
Now back to what I bought this thing for...

[Rambozo]

I know it's rather unconventional, but for short welds I like to just hold the electrode and let the stinger rest on the back of my hand. I get better control when the electrode is long. Probably because I usually TIG weld everything. SMAW is one of those things I have to do for a while to get the feel back, if I've gone a long time without doing any.

[youngnstudly]

As suggested, DC+ and heavier material made things much easier. I cut a 3/8" stake into 2 strips, butted them together with a small gap and ran a bead down the center. I seemed to get much better feedback with changes to the arc height and angle. I do struggle when starting the rod at full length (my hands are not too steady) but the second and third beads went better and I was better at adjusting position as the rod was consumed. Still not pretty, but I have a better feel for it.

Thanks for all the tips, everyone. This has been a great intro to stick and I'll revisit the process when time permits or if the right need arises.
Now back to what I bought this thing for...

You'll need even more practice than one four-sided fillet block, but just laying down a decent amount of beads will get you much more comfortable with stick welding. You're tig weld looks good.

I know it's rather unconventional, but for short welds I like to just hold the electrode and let the stinger rest on the back of my hand. I get better control when the electrode is long. Probably because I usually TIG weld everything. SMAW is one of those things I have to do for a while to get the feel back, if I've gone a long time without doing any.

I'm the same way with SMAW. It never takes long to get back into the "groove" of things, but I always find that I'm a little rusty when running the first few beads after a long break.

[its_34]

I know it's rather unconventional, but for short welds I like to just hold the electrode and let the stinger rest on the back of my hand. I get better control when the electrode is long. Probably because I usually TIG weld everything. SMAW is one of those things I have to do for a while to get the feel back, if I've gone a long time without doing any.
]

That's smart. I was struggling with 1/8" rod, can't imagine how 3/32 or 1/16 would have been. For tig work, I have to keep my hands very close too. Watching people feed rod from 18" away without a wiggle amazes me.

[its_34]

You'll need even more practice than one four-sided fillet block, but just laying down a decent amount of beads will get you much more comfortable with stick welding. You're tig weld looks good.

No doubt. I wasn't suggesting that I'd master this (and certainty with a 1lb box!) just that my effort would be better spent on tig technique.

There's a definite progression in any project I start and you can always tell which were the first welds and which were the final welds. Never can get enough hood time consistently to pick up where I left off. That's the difference between welders and people like me who just own one!

[youngnstudly]

You definitely improved in just the small amount of stick welding you did. The good news is you can still have a way to weld 2 pieces together after you run out of shielding gas with tig and mig. The average "Joe" won't ever need to produce beautiful stick welds for any reason, let alone for passing a cert.

I can't even tell you how many of those 4 sided fillet blocks I welded in school. After a couple hundred passes each block weighs a ton, and you begin to wonder why you signed up to be a weldor in the first place! For me, the reason was that I wanted to learn tig more than anything, but obviously preparing for stick certification comes first. It was definitely worth it in the end though. I've stick welded a handful to times in the past 10 years, but tig welded a great deal in that time.

[its_34]

The good news is you can still have a way to weld 2 pieces together after you run out of shielding gas with tig and mig.

This will likely be the next time I plug in my electrode holder. I know the day will come and I'm glad I have a little preparation. I just hope it's not in the middle of a delicate project!

[cbmkr]

That's smart. I was struggling with 1/8" rod, can't imagine how 3/32 or 1/16 would have been. For tig work, I have to keep my hands very close too. Watching people feed rod from 18" away without a wiggle amazes me.

Used to Run 7018 & 8018 1/4" 36" rods repairing winch drums for Armco Steel took some getting used to as your arm was way up in the air.