New 210EXT

[CaptNoAction]

Hello, I just received my new unit from Everlast this Friday. The machine is dated Jan 2014. I hooked it up and I can't get a puddle going. The machine seems to run fine. I read the manuals to the best of that ability. Here are my notes. This is my second TIG welder. Hobbyist.

- the breaker in the back is not hot
- my wall plug is not hot
- it is connected to a 220v 30a
- I get argon, no leaks at connection points, gas at 1300

The instructions I have received contradict with what the online manual says about connecting +/-. So, I have tried both and it seems I get the same result. I first powered it up, set controls (1.0 pre flow, 10 start current, 150, 10 end current, 1.0 end gas) what I got was a very bright, burnt tungsten. Used torch hand control.

- had just 2t, then pedal and 2t
- hf tig
- tig pulse off

- metal was clean
- grounded
- tungsten grinded with new stones on grinder (2% Ceriated)

I then tried foot control. Same control parameters, dropped 150-100, 10 slope up and down. What I got next was no real arc, it seemed the tungsten was glowing red about 10 mm up, and the metal got burned. Steel. Like what you would see on burnt paper. I then tried A/C and had the same problem. (pure tungsten electrode) The noise sounded like automatic gun fire.

I haven't messed with the hidden controls. I am trying to find the post about someone else having a similar problem. There must be something I am missing. Any help would be appreciated but plan to call technical support Monday if this isn't resolved.

Thank You, Matt

[RichardH]

Hi, Matt.

Congrats on your purchase! You'll love that machine once you get it going. I have one from the same batch.

For starters, yes, the manual is lacking. Your work clamp goes in the left, and your torch in the right. Polarity is controlled by the front panel button. You'll want DC- selected for steel. Make sure the HF Start button is on (upper right). Select TIG mode (lower left).

One thing that bit me is the HF start timer defaults to like 2 seconds, and if the arc doesn't establish it shuts down the torch and gas. That's a setting in the hidden menu. But not your issue here.

Have you tried turning off HF and scratch starting the arc? Tried stick?

What you describe does sound like it needs some troubleshooting with Everlast. I'd bet one of the first questions will be verifying the power plug is wired right, so it might speed things up to post pictures. If you're comfortable doing it, remove the right cover and measure voltage at the upper back of the circuit board where the power connects - you should have around 240v hot-hot and 120v from each hot to the ground.

I have no idea how the machine would run with power mis-wired, but it kinda sounds like something's keeping the arc from sustaining once it establishes.

Cheers,
Richard

[RichardH]

Dumb question, but have you checked that the torch is assembled with solid connections? I.e., no loose collet, etc.?

[DaveO]

Welcome, Matt!

I saw your post and had to step away, then came back to find Richard had already responded. I'll admit I was a touch confused by your note about "breaker not hot, wall plug not hot" which to some might mean there is no electric power.

Richard and I both kind of assumed you're working on steel, is that the case? If yes then he's spot on: set the machine for DC electrode negative and turn off anything to do with AC.

As long as you're checking connections, how's your ground?

Dave O

[Rambozo]

A few points; You don't want to use pure tungsten on an inverter. What size steel and tungsten are you using? What is your argon flow rate? Usually for foot pedal work you will set start amps, end amps, upslope and downslope all to minimum, otherwise the pedal will not respond in real time from those delays.
Here are some basic setting to weld a bead on plate for 1/8" steel:
3/32" tungsten ground to a point (2% Thoriated, Lanthinated, etc.)
Upslope, downslope, start amps, end amps all set to minimum.
Preflow .5 seconds, post flow 7 seconds, argon set to 14 cfh (7 lpm), #6 -#8 cup size with or without gas lens.
70 amps on the panel, use either torch switch or pedal, this should be enough to get a bead, but not too hot.
DCEN, HF start. Hold the tungsten about 3/32" away from the metal and hit the switch/pedal.

Give that a try.

[CaptNoAction]

Thanks guys for the responses. Hopefully I will answer them all.

-yes to steel. Not ss, 1/8 thick, 3/32 Ceriated tungsten
-everything on torch is tight
-argon is set to 14, had 15
-unsure how to do scratch start, will look it up here shortly
-did not receive any parts for stick and have never attempted it
-Ground is good, made a big welding table with last tig machine and used before I got rid of it. That's how I know argon is good and ground works on table
-Rambozo, will try settings. Had slope at 0, changed to 5, up and down slope.

RichardH, I think mine is a little different than yours.
I'm fine taking panel off. Actually it is now. Noisey beast. Fan kicks ###. In Glendale, AZ.

Will try to add pictures.

Thanks, Matt

[CaptNoAction]

hopefully pictures come up. now will go try new settings.

i believe the wire is correct, when i had the problems, went to local home depot and talked with the guy that had a badge that said master electrician. had talked to him before. he believes the wiring is correct hence the statement about the cable connections not being hot. nor the machine turning off.

ground is on the right, and the torch is connected to that per the online manual. correct?

[CaptNoAction]

I seem to be the guy that responds to his own post post.

Anyway, the start up amps help. so check for the dc. ac. nope. so i am assuming its me again.

The arc dances in a nickle style circle and no puddle.

My last machine didnt have all these nice features so i am now going to read why they are important.

Any ideas about the ac?

Thanks again, Matt

[RichardH]

Matt,

I'm coming back from diving at Lake Pleasant shortly, headed back to Chandler. Call me and I'll try to talk the wife into stopping by and checking out your kit, or you're welcome to come to my place - it's only 45 miles. :-)
Four eight oh, eight six one, seven nine three nine.
Cheers,
Richard

[performance]

Your torch should be in the right. Not the ground. This is likely most of the problem. Black and white wires are hot. Green is ground. It should have nema 6-50 plug.

[RichardH]

Good news, I think… I stopped by Matt's and we tinkered with his 210EXT for a while on both steel and aluminum, and I think we settled on some settings that work well on each. There definitely was some screwiness with the welder - not a physical defect, but the user interface has a "quirk".

He's got the new "2014" one-knob model of 210EXT (I think it's the one they've been selling in Canada for a little while), and aside from the panel being different, the personality is a little different.

Specifically, this version of the 210EXT has a new option for "Pedal", in addition to 2T/4T. Though I'm not sure how that's different from 2T. Second, it seems that the 4T settings were in effect for start/end amps and up/down slope, even when the welder was not in 4T mode - this was the root of the problem. Once we zeroed out the start/end amps and up/down slope, and set it to Pedal for good measure… then it started working as expected.

On the 2013 version I have, you can't even set 4T options when the pedal is plugged in - it auto-selects 2T mode, and it works as you'd expect. In the case above, it seemed like the pedal and 4T were both battling for control, so the welder was stuck in arc-start mode for a really long time. It wouldn't be until after the 5.0sec upslope time (or even double that) that a steady arc would establish and we'd get a puddle. During that time, the amps on the display jumped all over the place.

We didn't do a lot of problem isolation once we got to working settings, so I don't know if switching from 2T to Pedal fixed the problem, or if it's because we zeroed out the slopes. Either way, it probably shouldn't be doing 4T when it's not in 4T mode.

FWIW,
Richard

[RichardH]

FYI, Matt.

Here's the adapter you'll need for your torch - that CK Superflex will be like night and day compared to the stock torch, but watch the max amps.
http://store.mwsco.com/storefront/ev...Product=614861
I didn't notice, but I assume your version of 210EXT has a quick disconnect on the front panel for gas. If not, this isn't the right adapter.
MWSCO is a weak site, but they have the best prices going. It's run by the same folks as WeldFabulous.com, but the prices are like 15% better.


If you find you're going through gas too fast, give this $10 fix a try - it'll eliminate the surge when you light up, which is wasted gas. If you do a lot of short welds, surge can use more gas than actually welding. http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.co...tart=10#p26728

For gas and filler, the guys at Allied Gas have been very good to work with, and their prices are the best I've found. I use the location in Tempe at Scottsdale & Curry (just off 202). They have another closer to you.

For other consumables, I eventually bought a selection of CK collets, bodies, gas lenses, etc. from MWSCO, but I also built a large kit from eBay that'll probably last me a very long time. Here are some links: http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.co...php?f=5&t=4398

Finally… when you find yourself in Chandler, the place I mentioned is TechShop - stop in for a tour, any day before midnight: http://www.techshop.ws

Cheers,
Richard

[Blaster]

X2 - on Mississippi Welding, they're my new go-to supplier!

[DaveO]

Very cool y'all were able to get together!

[Paul Moir]

If you find you're going through gas too fast, give this $10 fix a try ...

That is brilliant! Thank you.

[joshuab]

Either way, it probably shouldn't be doing 4T when it's not in 4T mode.

Some people seem to prefer upslope and downslope when in 2T mode. Jody over at Welding Tips and Tricks even has a video where he talks about using the torch switch with up/downslope to do a manual slow-pulse for heat control when welding out of position so you can't use a pedal. But, yeah, no reason at all that I can think of for having up/downslope active when in pedal mode.

[Paul Moir]

I like having downslope active when in pedal because I can set it for a "no crater". It's lazy I know but why not have that automatic? When your done just slam the pedal open and let the downslope take care of things.

Upslope/Downslope is great for modulating a lower power when using 2t, and the "blast" you get from a short upslope is really handy. I never use 4t but I'm almost never making long constant current welds.

[Judgeless]

Specifically, this version of the 210EXT has a new option for "Pedal", in addition to 2T/4T. Though I'm not sure how that's different from 2T. Second, it seems that the 4T settings were in effect for start/end amps and up/down slope, even when the welder was not in 4T mode - this was the root of the problem. Once we zeroed out the start/end amps and up/down slope, and set it to Pedal for good measure… then it started working as expected.

I would like to use the up slope, start amps, down slope and end amps in 2T mode. When I read that your 4T setting work when you were in 2T mode I got excited. I tried it on my unit and it had zero effect.

[Judgeless]

I like having downslope active when in pedal because I can set it for a "no crater". It's lazy I know but why not have that automatic? When your done just slam the pedal open and let the downslope take care of things.

Upslope/Downslope is great for modulating a lower power when using 2t, and the "blast" you get from a short upslope is really handy. I never use 4t but I'm almost never making long constant current welds.

I would like this feature also. It is not supported in DC- on the 210EXT. Also start amps and down amps are not supported in AC mode when set as 2T.

[performance]

Two points worth noting, as context is important.
1) This is a limited release of the new 210ext unit, as we prepare for full production. It's very different in many respects than the current unit and has more/different capabilities than the current unit including a higher duty cycle, larger case, different factory etc.
2) Paul's unit, last I knew was a 225lx unit (and not a digital 210ext) which is analog and all analog units use the 2T function in conjunction with the pedal as it is the same circuit. Slope works on this unit, but there are NO start amps or end amps, and it always starts at the lowest capable amperage, and ramps up from there. The upslope and downslope must be turned down or off to run the pedal normally or operational issues will occur.