OK, neighbors here I go...

[Yofish]

I finished this trailer project for a friend that has a water taxi service:



The only interseting part of this project is that is the first time I've used torsion axles, provided by Pacific trailer, Chino, CA. The other I used the little bug sprayer unit some to get a better feel for it. Here is a series of welds that are completely acceptable to me:



I didn't weld the whole of it with the Everlast, but given the weld sequence, I may have been able to. A good test is coming up soon. I have an interesting remodel on a power skiff next week which will be the first real test of the units abilities. I'll report.

So for the Miami mouse ankle bite guy, I've developed a new Everlast logo:



And here is the BEST MOST EXPENSIVE first class ticket that I can find:



When you arrive and I do the 'weld that wasn't done by MIG' ten times for you, then you can meet the owners of the boats which I showed. At the first stop, I'll introduce you by your name. After you are completely humiliated, afterwards, I'll intro you as a 'dildo rod burner from Florida' that is learning an expensive lesson in humility. Put up sport, or STFU.

[fdcmiami]

Disney might object; how about something more representative of yourself...a blowfish perhaps? lol. then again mickey mouse is pretty good too...or maybe Pinocchio.

[Kempy]

Yofish, that is a nice trailer you built and nice welding too is that the one you used the converted 30A to the Everlast welder on?

[Yofish]

Yofish, that is a nice trailer you built and nice welding too is that the one you used the converted 30A to the Everlast welder on?

Yes, the 30A. But only a little as I'm getting a feel for how far I can push the thing. It welds every bit as good as my Hobart. This was 1/4" wall tube material so I had the heat up, I'm sure at the upper limits of the machine. I didn't have anyone to read the amps. But when you think about it - you only have two 6" vert ups, a 3" flat and 3" overhead weld - the overhead done at a later time, not a lot of time spent per connection. The longest continuous weld was 44" where the tongue attaches; I'm sure it wouldn't have hacked that, done overhead in three shots per side stopping only to reposition. 88" total.

[Yofish]

For the heck of it, I tried the MiamiRatWelder on some heavy stuff. I tilted it once, the red light came on, so unless something else happens that would shut the machine off after a point, I guess one can assume that it cooks if you're not paying attention. This kind of welding is not the plan for the machine but I want to know its limits. This is a masthead out of 3/4" bar on 1/2" plate:

[performance]

The machine if it hits the duty cycle "as stock" stops putting out power. Damage probably has already been done, and it won't be long now.

[zoama]

For the heck of it, I tried the MiamiRatWelder on some heavy stuff. I tilted it once, the red light came on, so unless something else happens that would shut the machine off after a point, I guess one can assume that it cooks if you're not paying attention. This kind of welding is not the plan for the machine but I want to know its limits. This is a masthead out of 3/4" bar on 1/2" plate:

Thanks for sharing...
Were the edges beveled and did you pre-heat ?
Did you weld it all in one go or were there breaks ?

[Yofish]

Thanks for sharing...
Were the edges beveled and did you pre-heat ?
Did you weld it all in one go or were there breaks ?

No bevel. As shown, the assembly is upside down and will socket into a mast that is slotted to receive it. YES! I nearly always pre-heat anything over 1/4" for starters. I did not time the welds but I did not 'go for it' and stopped in between. No weld was over 6" long. 23V and 230 rat bites per min. on the wire.

I'm curious as to how the machine in its 'stock mode' shuts itself off; does the weld current circuit open or the wire circuit? I can't imagine it being the wire unless the protection does not work in stick or TIG mode THAT IS if you just dead-shorted it by say, mashing the electrode into the work? Everlast doesn't have to worry, I wouldn't think of making any sort of claim should it fry but I don't really expect an answer that is understandable, either. Maybe if I hooked up my Tweco rod holder and ground to the machine it would be confused and not tilt? Must be something magical at work somewhere?

So zoama, as I sniff around this site I've caught whiff of a catalogue that 'is for industrial users' but for the life of me I can't find it. Is that some urban Everlast legend or is it real but not for the unwashed?

[performance]

When either an over current or an over heat is sensed, inverter output is shut down. The wire feeder will continue to roll, the fan will run but the inverter output is interrupted. It must cool and then it will reset itself if it's an overheat.
We send our industrial catalog out to industrial customers all over the world. Just sent quotes out to our S. African distributor. If you have 30k-50k dollars with financials to put up for minimum qty purchase for production, I'll send you a copy. The MTS 400 is one of the cheaper units we have in our industrial line...for example. That's why we put it on our regular site for promotion. Boards are fully potted and the unit has had no issues since its introduction 3 years ago.

[Yofish]

When either an over current or an over heat is sensed, inverter output is shut down. The wire feeder will continue to roll, the fan will run but the inverter output is interrupted. It must cool and then it will reset itself if it's an overheat.
We send our industrial catalog out to industrial customers all over the world. Just sent quotes out to our S. African distributor. If you have 30k-50k dollars with financials to put up for minimum qty purchase for production, I'll send you a copy. The MTS 400 is one of the cheaper units we have in our industrial line...for example. That's why we put it on our regular site for promotion. Boards are fully potted and the unit has had no issues since its introduction 3 years ago.

Here we go again with the 'sort of' answer. So what is so different with how the machine shuts down with your gun as opposed to the 30A? I know I'm ignorant, but I have to assume OVERHEAT or OVER CURRENT is a physical phenomena and not dependent on what is causing the condition. Would it not be more honest to say that?

You really make me laugh! OK I get it, I'm never going to see a catalogue unless I plunk down 50K, cool! Can you at least let us know if there is a REAL push-pull wire feed system you can get for 50K?

At the bottom, this is what I do not understand: in my career I've had AirCo (with cheerful willingness) help me hook up a Hobart Linear II feeder to one of their machines, with the same alacrity Hobart helped me hook up a Miller XR feeder to their power source and so on so forth, but you guys have some sort of mandate to be as obscure and resistant as possible to do the same! Do you not see what you are missing out on?

[performance]

Yofish,
I'm giving you time to collect your thoughts here. When you are in the corner for a few days, you can probably think about how to rephrase things instead of trying to call us liars and generally making nonsense...The unit has sensors that interrupts the output if a fault is detected. How much plainer can it be? Sensors and relay circuits are basic electrical circuits that can be employed to detect issues and stop output. IF you want more info on how, you can call tech support. But you've modified it, so your free tech support is void...but Ray or someone else may take his time to go into detail with you if he wants to on his dime. The unit senses excess current flow in and stops the output. And there is a heat sensor on the heat sink that interrupts operation as well. You should be able to trace that circuit on your own...with your vast experience at monkeying around with stuff.

Let's try a week ok?

edit: Running a larger diameter wire than the unit is rated for, can cause overheating and overcurrent as it allows more current to flow than the unit is rated for. The larger the diameter wire, the more power that can flow through it. The more power, the hotter the unit gets (and more rapidly too). Running a large diameter wire will cause issues, as I believe you said you had intentions of doing at the outset and was the reasoning behind getting the heavier gun you had hooked up in the first place.

[Kevin Morin]

Mark, could you help clarify your posts about the weld modes? I've been quoted here in this thread only to find out that I may not have understood the Spray, Globular Transfer and Short Arc modes as well as I'd thought? If you'd give me some links or description of the modes I'd appreciate it; I may have to go back to many previous welding posts and issue some corrections.

My remarks before have relied on these general descriptions. Spray is a mode where the wire feed rate allows a longer arc to vaporize the wire into tiny droplets that are too small to really see, and they collect in the general area of the arc cone foot print and as the weld passes by the parent metal chills the molten metal back to solid. ( IN the past we've always been told; spray was generally to be avoided in serious MIG due to the poor bend break performance due to porosity of the weld.)

Globular Transfer is where the rate of arc to wire feed is more like TIG in that the wire becomes a big molten drop while still acting as an electrode for the arc and when too heavy or shaken off by the welder, drops inside the gas envelope to the puddle and most often leaves a ridge of the chilling or freezing droplet in the puddle pattern, not unlike TIG but not usually as cosmetically uniform in all cases.

Short Arc, in Aluminum, I've considered that state of weld where globular transfer is happening at higher rates and I thought this could be induced and used to allow the MIG bead to stay molten longer when used in combination with Spray mode? I've described a MIG method that I consider wide spread, as one where the initial wire voltage related rate provides a spray but when the arc cone/torch is 'whipped' back around in a reversed lower case C or e ; then the wire's change in distance to the parent metal, would mean the R in V=IR was shifted enough to force the CV circuit to surge amperage to keep the Vflat and that would induce a shorting arc or maybe a few fast globular droplets 'on top'.

I call this a transition to short arc from spray mode and it seems those terms are not really correctly applied in this shift that sure seems to me to happen when I MIG weld.

The bend breaks using the transformer power supplies all showed this was a superior technique with the porosity less, and the wetting better, and on and on... therefore this method was taught and practiced.

Perhaps I'm using the terms incorrectly, and I'm not educated in this field so I'm not saying that my understanding OR my word choice is accurate.

I don't have an Everlast power supply and I'm not familiar with them as a welder, but the discussion of MIG in general is a bit independent of the power supply- when we're just on the theory and terminology level of welding. I may have a lot of back posting to do? (!)

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

[performance]

Kevin,
Good to see you here.
I'll preface this by saying, from my years growing up in heavy equipment, you don't find Caterpillar using much short arc welding on things like backhoe booms, loader bucket pin bosses or undercarriage cross bars. Every thing like this is spray that I know of. They have some of the top metallurgist in the country and some very particular metal types. If spray was an issue, they would not be using it almost exclusively. This is in steels mostly of course...but the action/mechanism is basically the same in steel, stainless, and aluminum, though the current and voltage values at which it occurs may vary.

Much of my "schooling" would contradict many of your statements, though I guess a lot of it is opinion interjected too by various instructors. I've heard the same concerns said about short arc with porosity and weakness. When you think of true short circuit, the wire is actually breaking and melting after it contacts the metal and the arc is extinguishing at that moment of wire contact and that would seem to increase porosity and weakness. This is happening many times a second. This effect can be observed or "magnified" by turning the wire speed up too high while keeping the voltage low, in the short circuit range. While this may exaggerate the action, it does give you a slowed down look at what is happening at a smaller scale within the weld.

With spray transfer, the arc cone is doing the melting and the pinched off droplet is delivered to the puddle via the force of the arc itself. It arrives already at a fully melted metal puddle and blends right in.

The arc cone with short circuit is minimal and irregular which reduces penetration and thereby increasing the chances for defective fusing as the wire literally stubs in and out of the puddle, which is typically quite cool by comparison.

As far as wetting in, spray mode itself wets in far better, in fact so well that it is not good for out of position use without a few tricks up your sleeve like pulsed spray or STT.
But the biggest concerns I have ever heard of was that of over penetration and HAZ creation. Perhaps the bend tests you saw failed because slow travel speeds and a large HAZ in heat sensitive material. I am not aware of those tests and have seen nothing in my research to point to those tests you refer to.

Globular transfer is really a no man's land and not desirable in the least as it is more unstable and spatter-y than either short circuit or spray...sort of like an aircraft being buffeted just under the sound barrier before it breaks through. You get good penetration, but the violence of the arc can introduce defects even though it is going plenty deep.

Now, in spray mode, the droplets are definitely visible and though they are rapid motion, the eyes can still detect it. If you cannot see the droplets, then the metal is beginning to vaporize. The droplets are roughly the diameter of the wire.

Here is a detailed "treatise" that deals with many of the issues you raise. Lincoln has far brighter minds than I that write this stuff. Some of the math is over my tired head tonight. If I had a doctorate in metallurgical engineering, I'd not be sitting here tonight. I know, a lot of people that will bristle and stand against the common and studied science of the matter, just as people believe in inventing a machine that creates its own energy to run with power left over. But I am not one of those guys. Push science to the limits, yes, but stay out of it's way because it will always come back to trip you up. Maybe we are speaking a little different welding language here, but talking about the same thing and that is not uncommon in our industry. There are as many dialects of welding lingo as there are of any language. But referring back to the source documents keep us speaking the "king's" English.

As far as the comparison to TIG and globular transfer, I'd have to say that if your filler wire is melting with a large molten drop before you get it to the puddle in TIG, something is wrong.
http://www.spagweb.com/v8mini/tech_files/welding.pdf

[Kevin Morin]

Mark, thanks I figured this was being discussed without a clear common language. I see by your clarification we're not all using the collection of letters on this page (words) to represent identical 'things' in the welding process. Your spray transfer includes what we call, incorrectly I suspect, short arc. Us old Alaskan transformer trained welders have associated the larger droplets and the arc's sort of popping or crackling sounds, in aluminum MIG, as short arc. If I can see the droplets (?) I'd have said it was short arc as they form and deposit into the puddle and when the wire re-initiates the arc.... I thought that was short arc?

When I use the term 'spray mode' I'm describing a very long arc with droplets that are not visible, or perhaps better said not distinguishable to the eye, and the bend break tests I'm discussing are the tests I've done every few days for decades to make sure I'm not putting down beads that have some root face gas entrainment problems. When we open up the long arc, tiny droplet, hissing sounding, sandy surfaced welds we all call 'spray mode' they have little gas bubbles very well dispersed in the break. So what yofish must have been referring to was (too) 'long arcing' which does put down a 'foamy' weld and breaks too easily. I wasn't discussing any set of bend break tests done by a given welding testing lab, just the ones I do on my own welds as a matter of course. In those instances, the long arc weld with the very tiny droplets, is what I call spray, where the droplets we can see we call short arc, and they're much less porous welds.

In my lexicon and word choice; if I can see the droplets in almost slow motion that's globular transfer (droplets/globules same same...) OR if the droplets deposit faster into the puddle we'd call it short arc. But that does appear to be in error regarding the correct use of terms?

Next, globular transfer can be done to approximate TIG in this regard. The tungsten in a TIG torch is fixed, has the arc and is kept at a close but removed proximity to the molten puddle surface. In MIG globular transfer, at least when I do it with a transformer power supply, the wire feeds slowly, an the bulbous droplet of melting aluminum does act and appear as though it were TIG tungsten. I'm not saying they're equal,I'm not saying they are identical; merely remarking the wire's molten droplet tip is bulbous, is the focus of the arc and is controllable exactly like a TIG electrode. But this is limited to thin aluminum and not for easily done by low hour welders.

Back to the short arc, I see that short arc is when the wire touches the parent metal and is essentially melted and snapped off in a single action. But where we use the term is when the droplets (which I'm convinced you're identifying as spray mode) are larger, and the hiss sound of the what we call spray turns to the 'crackle' of what we call short arc: is really just minor variations in spray mode transfer?

I think it very possible we've (many older transformer trained Alaskan aluminum welders) been using the term short arc to describe a subtle shift in the spray mode's droplet size, with an accompanying sound shift and arc length change? This shift is the subject of extensive practice and adjustment of the wire, voltage, and gap/stickout/arc length as the shift only happens reliably when the related rates of wire and power are right. Otherwise the arc is too long even if you whip the puddle, and cold lapped if you have too much wire speed OR too little welding wattage to melt the parent metal and obtain toe and top fusion lines.

I'm still not all that clear on globular transfer because I can assure you that it has no spatter at all, it is fully and totally controllable and gives a nice uniform row or dimes weld, but the dime edge is not as clean a half moon as I'd like so I use a cold wire feed TIG gun myself. (OTC Daihen TIG Boy 300 water cooled.) The description you give does not match my experience so I'm not sure, again, the I'm using the same terms for the same physical event.

But I'm pretty sure what yofish and I have been calling short arc is what you're (probably correctly) calling spray. I think we're focused on the very edge of the rates where the droplet sizes are changed by moving the wire in relation to the puddle influencing the CV circuit after spending 4 decades paying close attention to that subtle related rate, but in doing that we're using the terms incorrectly- or at the very least differently than you're using them.

thanks for the reply

Cheers,
Kevin Morin

[performance]

Kevin,

Spray arc is more easily distinguished by the sound. I would add that you don't need to manipulate much in true spray arc, though it's possible, it rather more for vanity's sake and it can cause some popping as you swing back. Spray arc is high deposition, so constant swift forward travel is your friend...creating ripples, not so much.
Globular it seems you are referring to a setup where your wire feed is simply too low. Rather it is a point that the wire feed is actually fairly high but vol
tage is just at or below the threshold for true spray. The arc transfer is not melting back so much as it is melting in or below the puddle, pinching off violently, then burning a few drops at varying arc lengths and then shorting again violently. Here is a slo mo video of that:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl6AfuKGdP4

Here's a good video representing what spray looks like slowed down. I can see this happening, although admittedly it is a blur, I can see the drops as the enter the puddle if my lens is dark enough, at least on steel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHkbh0oKv_g

Here's a good one from a normal speed perspective. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb1gvHf0H6w

Here's one of short circuit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb1gvHf0H6w

[zoama]

Here's a link to the clearest slowest videos you'll ever see on GMAW transfer modes > http://www.ualberta.ca/~ccwj/videos/...ndex.html#fund

[DaveO]

Those videos are very well done.

[Yofish]

Cleared from Jail, I've used the little Miami Rat Welder on a couple of more remote jobs and am still happy. The last was on a boat across the Bay (forgot camera) over the holiday weekend, that only put out 204V from the gen set but was able to do the job. A guy came by and was really impressed with the machine and the welds. Turns out, he was looking for something similar. Gave him the particulars. Another sale, I think.

[TheGary]

Cleared from Jail, I've used the little Miami Rat Welder on a couple of more remote jobs and am still happy. The last was on a boat across the Bay (forgot camera) over the holiday weekend, that only put out 204V from the gen set but was able to do the job. A guy came by and was really impressed with the machine and the welds. Turns out, he was looking for something similar. Gave him the particulars. Another sale, I think.

Keep us posted on how your "rat" welder is doing. I like the portability of it. Be a good boy and stay out of jail.

[everlastsupport]

When he was in jail the forum was broke for days. So he might not have been in Jail or had a lesser sentence..