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Thread: much smaller torch for powerpro 256?

  1. Default

    Okay guys thank you for all your help!!

    I went with a CK24, air cooled, flex head. Its about the same price as a CK130, but I am betting that the even smaller size will be more beneficial than the higher amperage rating. Also, I chose air cooled because that should make the torch even lighter and the cable more flexible than the water cooled version.

    For 165$ shipped (weldfabulous) I got the torch, connector, and a bunch of cups, lenses, and collets to support 1/16" and 3/32" electrodes.

    My only concern is the balance of duty cycle and amperage and how this small torch will work out. I think I'll need to use it between 100 and 115A, but I'm not sure how demanding I will be as far as duty cycle..I'm not that fast yet and mostly I just want to make it so making the bead on those runners isnt a STRUGGLE anymore..even if its slow.

    Worst case if its too wimpy for aluminum at 105A, then at least it should be fantastic on steel at 60A. (exhaust headers)

    We shall see!!
    Last edited by acannell; 07-26-2014 at 03:33 PM.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    Okay guys thank you for all your help!!

    I went with a CK24, air cooled, flex head. Its about the same price as a CK130, but I am betting that the even smaller size will be more beneficial than the higher amperage rating. Also, I chose air cooled because that should make the torch even lighter and the cable more flexible than the water cooled version.

    For 165$ shipped (weldfabulous) I got the torch, connector, and a bunch of cups, lenses, and collets to support 1/16" and 3/32" electrodes.

    My only concern is the balance of duty cycle and amperage and how this small torch will work out. I think I'll need to use it between 100 and 115A, but I'm not sure how demanding I will be as far as duty cycle..I'm not that fast yet and mostly I just want to make it so making the bead on those runners isnt a STRUGGLE anymore..even if its slow.

    Worst case if its too wimpy for aluminum at 105A, then at least it should be fantastic on steel at 60A. (exhaust headers)

    We shall see!!
    If you get time, post up parts list you ordered. Other might be interested in going that way too. Good idea on the air cool, just hope it handles the amps for you.
    Mike R.
    Email: admineverlast@everlastwelders.com
    www.everlastgenerators.com
    www.everlastwelders.com
    877-755-9353 x203
    M-F 12 - 7PM PST
    FYI: PP50, PP80, IMIG-200, IMIG-250P, 210EXT and 255EXT.

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by everlastsupport View Post
    If you get time, post up parts list you ordered. Other might be interested in going that way too. Good idea on the air cool, just hope it handles the amps for you.
    here ya go from weldfabulous

    REMEMBER I am not that familiar ordering this particular set of parts..so I may have screwed up. But I think I got it right. I just ordered stuff for 1/16" and 3/32" electrodes, not the .020, .040.

    Also, I didnt order the extra small gas lens thats a CK exclusive, because its $11 and I figured all the other gas lenses I ordered will get the job done, but it is interesting because it appears to be a very short stubby gas lens....

    I would also like to mention that, like most blue collar industries, there are a zillion nonsensical "series" model numbers for Tig Torches, and it seems nobody has put it all into a giant spreadsheet so every torch made by CK can be compared at once.

    Long lists of torches separated by "line" like "master" "standard" etc.. are really a pain to go through and make shopping for stuff un-fun and annoying. I could care less what marketing slot a torch fits into, I just want to see the specs! Please everlast, if and when you do put up the CK torches, just make a single page listing ever torch they have with relevant specs on one page, INCLUDING dimensions. And have links to ALL the consumables for that torch that will fit.

    Building this order on weld fabulous was also a pain. I had to go back, search for the new part number ,add it to the cart, confirm, repeat, for these 2 dozen parts. Annoying.

    And let me build my own kit of consumables please...I might want 10 pieces but I dont neccessarily need them in the assortment that is most "common"..

    And PLEASE ship first class mail!! I cant believe there are still places online charging $15 for UPS ground when USPS could do it for $5. Why is that still happening??? Its not 1999 anymore!!


    Last edited by acannell; 07-26-2014 at 06:57 PM.

  4. #24

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    What are you going to do about the gas quick disconnect ? The Everlast specific torch package comes with the correct one installed.
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zoama View Post
    What are you going to do about the gas quick disconnect ? The Everlast specific torch package comes with the correct one installed.
    from what I can tell, the DINSE connector I bought specifically mentions everlast, and the picture of its gas fitting looks just like my everlast one. I think this new "QD" suffix has something to do with it.


  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    from what I can tell, the DINSE connector I bought specifically mentions everlast, and the picture of its gas fitting looks just like my everlast one. I think this new "QD" suffix has something to do with it.
    That'll work then. The suffix has changed since I got mine a couple years ago.
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  7. #27

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    No,
    They don't do it that way any more. Gas connector is an adapter. Unless it is old stock.

    UPS doesn't just charge 5.00. It is still expensive to ship a torch that weighs four or five pounds including packaging. 15.00 is about right for a lot of products. It also covers the cost of paying someone to put it in the box and ship it. If you are paying only 5.00 then likely the cost is built into the price.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    No,
    They don't do it that way any more. Gas connector is an adapter. Unless it is old stock.

    UPS doesn't just charge 5.00. It is still expensive to ship a torch that weighs four or five pounds including packaging. 15.00 is about right for a lot of products. It also covers the cost of paying someone to put it in the box and ship it. If you are paying only 5.00 then likely the cost is built into the price.
    Here is how its done right:

    Aircraft Spruce shows you a list comparing Fedex, UPS, and USPS. Their shipping calculator shows you actual shipping costs which will be charged, not estimates. And they account for the size of what you are ordering automatically, so if I get something too heavy, its not going to show USPS first class mail anymore, for instance.

    Look at the huge difference in pricing between the various carriers. I'm saving $7 versus the cost of UPS or Fedex. Thats what I'm talking about. And USPS first class mail always gets to me in 2 or 3 days even cross country, AND it delivers on Saturday for free. UPS doesnt unless you pay them ANOTHER 13 bucks, and they take 5 or 6 days to go cross country.

    I'm pretty sure Aircraft Spruce has to pay someone to put it in a box, yet their prices are fantastic and actually the best there are for certain materials even for very small quantity stuff, and their site is a joy to shop on.


  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    Here is how its done right:

    Aircraft Spruce shows you a list comparing Fedex, UPS, and USPS. Their shipping calculator shows you actual shipping costs which will be charged, not estimates. And they account for the size of what you are ordering automatically, so if I get something too heavy, its not going to show USPS first class mail anymore, for instance.

    Look at the huge difference in pricing between the various carriers. I'm saving $7 versus the cost of UPS or Fedex. Thats what I'm talking about. And USPS first class mail always gets to me in 2 or 3 days even cross country, AND it delivers on Saturday for free. UPS doesnt unless you pay them ANOTHER 13 bucks, and they take 5 or 6 days to go cross country.

    I'm pretty sure Aircraft Spruce has to pay someone to put it in a box, yet their prices are fantastic and actually the best there are for certain materials even for very small quantity stuff, and their site is a joy to shop on.
    I like that...
    What does the price go to when you change to the east warehouse where the item is in stock ?
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zoama View Post
    I like that...
    What does the price go to when you change to the east warehouse where the item is in stock ?
    I just tried it and it didnt change when I switched warehouses. It shouldnt really because first class is the same regardless of destination.

    But I did just find something they blew it on. They offer priority mail but it looks like they dont offer flat rate priority mail.

    So for instance, if I order quantity 10 of 9" x 9" x 0.25" steel plates, which is going to be very heavy, that would easily fit in a priority mail 11$ medium flat rate box, they want $72 for it because they are just going normal priority mail. Why cant they just have the flat rate boxes available? There are many online stores which do just that and those are the winners. Its really annoying how online businesses just disregard how much we have to pay for shipping when they can simply add low cost options for no cost.

    Now you go on ebay and the great sellers make all that available, especially since ebays shipping system provides all the flat rate options so easily. But I guess non-ebay commercial enterprises have better things to do :/

  11. #31
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    It's all about the software.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  12. #32

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    If it's flat rate, I would think in the US, the price would not change?

    I guess I am lucky to have a friend that owns an iron works shop and A1 Industrial close by and open Saturday. I will not complain about the price next time on Saturday, but I will the time after that one

    So they got you $40 for the dinse?
    Mike R.
    Email: admineverlast@everlastwelders.com
    www.everlastgenerators.com
    www.everlastwelders.com
    877-755-9353 x203
    M-F 12 - 7PM PST
    FYI: PP50, PP80, IMIG-200, IMIG-250P, 210EXT and 255EXT.

  13. Default

    I got my stuff a couple days ago. Unfortunately I got the wrong DINSE connector. A "-24" suffix needs to be added to the end of the part number for it to work with the 24 series torch. I placed another order from weldfabulous for the right connector and it will be here tomorrow. They ship USPS priority mail on request so its only taking 3 days from MN to CA for the same shipping cost. The first order took a few days extra because they had to order some of the parts from CK, which they made clear on their website so it wasn't a surprise.

    But heres an example of the problem I see. First off, ordering the wrong connector is my fault, yes, but the process of placing an order for the dozen or so consumables was so time consuming and difficult that I'm not surprised at all I made a mistake. It took me a good 6 hours to figure out what kind of torch I needed, what was for sale and in stock somewhere, and what consumables would work for it. This is a process that should take 10 minutes if you think about whats going on. "Current" "Flex head" "Connector compatibility" "Dimensions" are the relevant pieces of info. The idea that this SHOULD be a complex process is ridiculous. I can go to autozone.com and basically buy engine parts for every part on my 3 cars in 10 minutes without any confusion or doubt. Ordering welding supplies should be at least as easy. As others have posted, the difference in shipped costs when ordering consumables can be enormous between websites, its not something that can just be ignored.

    The process of picking out a new torch, that was compatible with my welder, and locating all the consumables I'd need for it, was so time consuming and difficult I'm not at all surprised there was a problem with the order. Everlast, if you are listening, and you are planning on carrying CK on your website, please don't do it the way you are currently selling your own line of torches and consumables. Instead, have all torches and consumables on one page, and show all the relevant info for each one in a table. Make it so I can put in my welder serial number or something and know which style connectors it has.

    There is no excuse 14 years into the 21st century for these old fashioned websites which make you scrounge around multiple pages and open PDF files to figure out whats what and get what you need. It makes shopping the worst experience possible. Instead of it being an enjoyable experience where I want to see what cool things I can get for my welder, its something I'd rather avoid and only do if absolutely necessary.

    In regards to shipping costs, I find it hard to believe anyone at CK or weldfabulous cares too much about those. First off, they did not drop ship the order from CK. So somebody had to pay for shipping from CK to weldfabulous. Second, they shipped the order to me in a very large non-flat rate cardboard box via USPS priority mail, which from MN to CA probably doubled the actual shipping cost compared to a flat rate box, of which this order could EASILY fit into.

    Waste and inconvenience were acceptable when the transition from mail-order to WWW shopping was getting underway in the mid 90's, but its just silly now.

    I'm trying to HELP. My PowerPro 256 is **AWESOME** and if I had money to burn I'd buy whatever crazy new edition of it Everlast has, especially something with MIG. I'm about to use my welder to make money at home and live my dream, I couldn't ask for more from it. Just go to the next step guys and make buying accessories fun!!!! Same goes for weldfabulous, the phone AND email customer service is great, they just need a website thats easier to use for the vast array of welding consumables instead of a hunt-and-peck, and to offer super cheap USPS first class mail for small stuff.

    Oh and as far as the torch itself, I'm happy with the quality and its going to be a huge change from my giant 18 series torch, but it feels so light maybe I got one thats too small. I'm totally happy keeping it though and getting either the 180amp water cooled 24 series also, or the air cooled CK130. I think it will always be handy to have the smallest torch possible on standby for when I really need it.






  14. #34

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    Looks like you overheated your mouse pad searching.
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  15. #35
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    I suspect that no company will dedicate the resources to compiling and maintaining that kind of online database for a niche market like welding. If they did, no doubt it would only be for Lincoln and Miller. Then maybe add in ESAB, Horbart, and some other second tier players. Everlast would be way down the list. Welding supplies are geared more for the industrial market and not consumers. The 24 is also not a mainline torch, so there will be even less info. Having said that, one phone call to CK would have got you all the information that you need. CK is a very customer focused company and it's not all that hard to get an expert like VP Sjon Delmore on the phone to sort out the proper numbers for you. Looks like you got it all sorted out in the end. Be sure to let everyone know how you like the new gear.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  16. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rambozo View Post
    I suspect that no company will dedicate the resources to compiling and maintaining that kind of online database for a niche market like welding. If they did, no doubt it would only be for Lincoln and Miller. Then maybe add in ESAB, Horbart, and some other second tier players. Everlast would be way down the list. Welding supplies are geared more for the industrial market and not consumers. The 24 is also not a mainline torch, so there will be even less info. Having said that, one phone call to CK would have got you all the information that you need. CK is a very customer focused company and it's not all that hard to get an expert like VP Sjon Delmore on the phone to sort out the proper numbers for you. Looks like you got it all sorted out in the end. Be sure to let everyone know how you like the new gear.
    Welding is a major segment of the manufacturing industry, not sure where you are getting the idea its a niche market. Setting up a good online shop is trivial, and in 2014 there is no excuse for "old web" hunt and peck paper-catalog style web shops.

    I've had almost a dozen engineering jobs as an EE and McMaster Carr was known by everyone, everywhere I worked. Their website is a prime example of how to do MRO right, and simultaneously charge higher prices but make it worth it. Check out how they let you browse and buy welding supplies, and then compare that to Everlasts or Weldfabulous. There is not a single thing about what McMaster does that is expensive or complex to implement, its just that McMaster Carr is customer focused, Everlast is product focused, and Weldfabulous and Arczone don't have a focus.

    Take the McMaster Tig page shown below. You can click on anything and add it to your cart right on the page without leaving the page or having to go back and search for other parts again, it even tells you whats in stock right when you add it so you can make decisions fast and get things done. On weld fabulous, if you have a laundry list of items (which you had to spend time figuring out elsewhere, but on mcmaster you can figure out your list on the spot), you have to enter every single one manually, search for it, go through the vague, poorly pictured results, confirm what you are adding is correct because its so ambiguous, and then repeat the whole process again, with nothing giving you the big picture.

    I'm not sure why anyone would want to make excuses for doing it worse instead of doing it better. If Everlast would do it better we'd all enjoy the results alot more. If McMaster sold CK I'd pay more to be able to get stuff there quick. Thats where I get all my Tig consumables as is anyways, regardless of whether or not I could get them cheaper somewhere else. Its worth it to know its right and its fast.

    Can you imagine how much fun it would be if this McMaster page showed everything that CK sold?????

    CK seems to be coming out with new stuff all the time, the torch had some pamphlets for extra stubby 24 series gas cups that I hadn't seen anywhere when I was researching my order before. Thats because its either not on their site yet or because its buried in the arbitrary categories they have. How much more visible would it be on a single page like this?





  17. #37
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    What I meant was that consumer welding is a niche, my guess would be that 90% or more of all welding products are sold to industrial customers. Places like Graingers and McMaster have the funds to develop top notch web sites. Smaller outfits can't do that, so they compete on price. If you really think there is a vast untapped market for this, you are welcome to start your own business.
    Long arc, short arc, heliarc and in-the-dark!

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by acannell View Post
    ...its just that McMaster Carr is customer focused, Everlast is product focused, and Weldfabulous and Arczone don't have a focus.
    That made me laugh...

    Weldingcity.com is easy to shop, has good prices and ships USPS. http://www.weldingcity.com/tig-torch...and-insulator/
    2013 250EX : SSC Pedal : I-MIG 250P 20' Profax gun : Power Plasma 60 p80 torch : 3M Speedglas 9100XX : Evolution Rage 3 DB cold saw

  19. Default

    I agree weld city is easy to shop but they only sell certain items. For example click on their link for stick welding rods. They only have 2 and they are for cast iron. Whats with that? I need a welding supply that can get me anything I need at a good price and no hassle.
    Miller 302 gas drive
    millermatic 200 mig
    miller spoolmatic 3 spool gun with 100ft ext.
    2014 Everlast PP60S plasma
    thermal arc 250 GTS inverter
    2016 Everlast 250EX
    miller tig cooler
    2015 Everlast MTS250S
    Miller 30A spool Gun
    Miller xtreme 12VS wire feeder
    Linde CM 85 shape cutter

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rambozo View Post
    What I meant was that consumer welding is a niche, my guess would be that 90% or more of all welding products are sold to industrial customers. Places like Graingers and McMaster have the funds to develop top notch web sites. Smaller outfits can't do that, so they compete on price. If you really think there is a vast untapped market for this, you are welcome to start your own business.
    Funny how demanding people can be when they are not fronting the tab or running the place AND want the lowest price. I agree with you 100%

    I hate having to buy from grainger, but they will have what you need and it will cost top dollar. What pays for that website I guess ...
    Mike R.
    Email: admineverlast@everlastwelders.com
    www.everlastgenerators.com
    www.everlastwelders.com
    877-755-9353 x203
    M-F 12 - 7PM PST
    FYI: PP50, PP80, IMIG-200, IMIG-250P, 210EXT and 255EXT.

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