255ext HF Start

[labmaster02]

I have a new (2015) 255ext and I have intermittent issues with the high frequency start. I could be welding along just fine then when I go to strike and arc nothing happens. I have found if I touch the tungsten to the weld material, without the petal pressed then lift it back up and press the petal it will work every time. It's been like this since new. It does it in both AC and DC, with the pedal and with the finger switch. I've varied the post and pre flow. Brand new tungsten and and clean shiny metal. I've been in touch with Everlast Support and they have already sent me a new control board and HF board. It didn't help. They have agreed to replace the welder, but don't have any right now in stock. I'm just looking to see if anyone else has seen this. I hate to send the welder back if it's going to be the same.

[rick9345]

if your 1st weld with a newly sharpened shiny tungsten starts ok and then have bad starts, check for at least .5s preflow and adequate post flow to keep tungsten shiny.
typically a bad/hard restart is caused by inadequate post flow. scratching tungsten removes oxides from tungsten. Crap from weld could also be contaminating tungsten/work surface along with very low arc start amps can also cause this.

Preflow and post flow important for good arc starts along with clean material to be welded.

[labmaster02]

Tungsten and metal are clean. Tried post flow between 0-3 seconds and still happens. It will error with "E04" on the display and the error goes away as soon as the pedal is let up. I'm just looking to see if anyone else has seen this.

[rick9345]

cHECK YOUR POST FLOW NEEDS AGAIN, POST FLOW NEEDS TO BE ABOUT 9-10s(.032 tungsten) , AT THE VERY LEAST POST NEEDS TO REMAIN ON TILL AFTER TUNGSTON RED GOES AWAY, 3s NEVER ENOUGH FOR ME EVEN WITH .O4O TUNGSTEN

[labmaster02]

Sorry I meant pre flow was up to 3. Post flow was always over 7. Again it's a machine issue confirmed by Everlast Tech support. I'm just trying to see if anyone else has this issue.

[Rambozo]

Tungsten and metal are clean. Tried post flow between 0-3 seconds and still happens. It will error with "E04" on the display and the error goes away as soon as the pedal is let up. I'm just looking to see if anyone else has seen this.

As I recall that "error" is just that the arc wasn't started within the set time. Not really an error, but more like information. Now as to why it's not starting, there could be any number of reasons and it's best to actually test the output with a scope and a load bank. You could also have a HF leak somewhere. It's very easy for high frequency to go somewhere you don't want it to, and cause hard starting. There are some things you could test, if you have more than one torch and cable assembly? It would suck if you send the machine back and the replacement does the same thing only to find it is a bit of bad insulation in your torch lead, or something equally simple.

[performance]

Try just using .5 seconds of Preflow or less. See if that makes a difference. Also touch your tungsten to the work piece before briefly trying to make a start. See if this helps.

[labmaster02]

I think I tried both torches, but I'm going to try again just to make sure. I agree it could be something simple and I hate to send it back if it's not the machine. What's strange is that when it doesn't start all I do is touch the tungsten to the work piece, is see a very slight spark and then lift it back up, press the pedal and it works. It will always restart if the post flow is still on and if I touch the tungsten to the work piece before the HF times out it will start, kind of like a scratch start. I really like the welder it's just frustrating to get set up to weld and I push the pedal and nothing.

I agree the "E04" is just as you said.

[labmaster02]

I usually set the preflow to .5, but I even tried 0 and as much as 3 seconds still the same. It will start every time if I touch the tungsten first, but it kind of takes away from the HF starts

I tried another torch and it does the same. I also noticed it's much worse on DC, but also does it in AC just not as bad

[Rambozo]

I usually set the preflow to .5, but I even tried 0 and as much as 3 seconds still the same. It will start every time if I touch the tungsten first, but it kind of takes away from the HF starts

I tried another torch and it does the same. I also noticed it's much worse on DC, but also does it in AC just not as bad

It sounds like you get HF starts, so it's not a complete fail. It almost sounds like you have to bleed off some kind of charge before the machine resets for a clean start. There should be no spark when you touch the work with the pedal up.
Do this, before you even hit the pedal, touch the work with the tungsten and see if there is any spark, then hold a 1/16 - 1/8" gap and hit the pedal. What happens? Another test is with the torch away from the work, tap the pedal and release it, then while the postflow is going position the torch as before and hit the pedal. What happens? Increase the postflow duration if you need more time to do this test. That might shed some light into what is going on. Of course be sure you do this with a fresh tungsten and make sure you have a good ground. Let us know what happens.

[performance]

Miller Inverters will even do this. It's something that can happen from time to time. I am not a technician, but am familiar with this sort of thing. I ran across an article the other day by Miller or Lincoln explaining this phenomenon on inverters.

[labmaster02]

Rambozo
I'll try your suggestions when I get home today. I also have a Millermatic 211 MIG and that one does the same thing, after welding if I touch the wire to the metal it sparks, sometimes enough to darken the helmet. Miller says it's residual voltage from the caps. I know it's a different machine with the transformer though.

Performance
I read an article from Miller talking about having to scratch the tungsten across the metal if it doesn't start. They blame it on either the tungsten or the material is contaminated. I've considered this too but if even happens with clean metal and tungsten.

Something I noticed last night while trying this was the HF was erratic. Even when it started, the time varied, it wasn't always the .5 setting on the preflow, Sometimes it was noticeably longer even when it did work

Thanks for all the help

[rick9345]

Don't know about 250EXT,but on my 250EX and Miller Syncrowave 250 and my old Dialarc all have points and sensitive to point gap setting for smooth consistant HF starts.
When using pedal set start amps at 0 and end amps at 0 and be in 2T
Gas leak argon contamination??

Suggest call Everlast support.
They have been very helpful for me, have info in hand ,ser#, settings etc.

[labmaster02]

255ext has solid state HF no points

[performance]

A few 255EXT's were produced with points. If you see a spark/blue light coming from the front, then it does.

[labmaster02]

I have the 2015 model. I understood the don't have points. If this isn't the case please let me know.

[labmaster02]

Here's the results of Rambozo's request.

If I scratch the tungsten on the metal first it seems to work every time. This doesn't surprise me. Occasionally I would see the faint spark. It's very light and hard to see sometimes. The arc strike was consistent with the .5 preflow.

If I press the pedal to get the post flow going, then bring the tungsten to the metal and press the pedal again. It would immediately strike an arc. This is because the preflow was already off. At first it seemed to work. Then it misfired several times.

[cadguy]

Every Tig machine I have ever used, inverters as well as transformer machines, (not a huge array) has had that tiny spark.
I assumed it was some kind of residual voltage from either caps that had not discharged, or a normal function of the sense circuit of the arc start function. I have a new 255 ext, and am having kind of the opposite problem, I can shoot a HF arc about 3 inches. Problem is when I try to weld aluminum can together, the HF will roll a .040 tungsten back into the cup, and blow a hole right in the can. Occasionally I can get it to start without that happening, and welds just fine, until I back off at the end, the POW, the HF kicks in again an will proceed to blow a hole in the material!

[windscreen]

A few 255EXT's were produced with points. If you see a spark/blue light coming from the front, then it does.

Hi Mark. I apparently have one of the few 255EXTs with points. Could you be so kind as to provide a spec for what the points gap should be. The manual is written around the solid state HF start machine, and has no spec. I'd like to write down the value in my manual for future reference.

Thanks,
-Steve

[performance]

.035" with a range of .030-.045"