Going Green: 200DV

[dumbwelder]

So seeing that this sub-forum appears to be more active than 'Introduce Yourself' or 'Pre-purchase(etc)' I'll post here.

I just purchased a 200DV yesterday and await its arrival. I have used exclusively Blue and Red(and even a Yellow!) machines for a good while and have been hearing positive things about Everlast from some people who any welder would have to take seriously.

I have a fairly big project at hand requiring over 200' of welding of .125" aluminum tubing. This thing is going to be put through the ringer as soon as its kicked off the UPS truck.

I am also on a life long crusade against the 'big, dumb' tig torches, so I cannot proceed without a 20. I believe there are air-cooled torches good for 150amps, which I'm hoping will almost cover me on this project.

It'd be great if someone with .125" aluminum experience on an Everlast machine would share their knowledge on the finer points of 'at what point should you give in and buy a cooler'.

For anyone interested, here is some of my work...
https://www.instagram.com/weldymcwelderton/

[rick9345]

Hand will get toasty with the air cooled 20 ,need thick mig style gloves(clumsy)
I have both series 9 air/gas cooled for tacking and series 20 water cooled for long welds(length/duration). Everlast 250EX

[Rambozo]

Hand will get toasty with the air cooled 20 ,need thick mig style gloves(clumsy)
I have both series 9 air/gas cooled for tacking and series 20 water cooled for long welds(length/duration). Everlast 250EX

20 is always a water cooled.

[dumbwelder]

Thanks for the input. I was once forced to use a water cooled torch after the impeller in the cooler failed because the job had to get done(NOW!). It got so hot it melted the water line in it. These were more than adequate(highly recommended)...
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...ncolnElectric)

Will an air-cooled torch hold up better than a 'dry' water-cooled under similar conditions?

Do you use one torch to tack and one to weld in order to lower your energy bill? I never thought about that. I can't stand the bigger torches because, not only are they bulky, but they make for some awkward and uncomfortable hand positions.

[dumbwelder]

20 is always a water cooled.

I've actually used Lincoln Invertec 205's with air-cooled 20's.

EDIT: Maybe I am confused. Is the 9 the same size as a 20?

[Rambozo]

I've actually used Lincoln Invertec 205's with air-cooled 20's.

EDIT: Maybe I am confused. Is the 9 the same size as a 20?

Yes they share the same basic size. Just like the 18 is the water cooled version of the 17.

[dumbwelder]

Ahhhhhhh. I did not know that. Thank you!

Why does it need to be so confusing?! Whatever, they're the experts

[Rambozo]

Thanks for the input. I was once forced to use a water cooled torch after the impeller in the cooler failed because the job had to get done(NOW!). It got so hot it melted the water line in it. These were more than adequate(highly recommended)...
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...ncolnElectric)

Will an air-cooled torch hold up better than a 'dry' water-cooled under similar conditions?

Do you use one torch to tack and one to weld in order to lower your energy bill? I never thought about that. I can't stand the bigger torches because, not only are they bulky, but they make for some awkward and uncomfortable hand positions.

As you noticed, it's not so much the torch that fails as the power lead. They depend on the water to keep the small copper wire from melting down. Where as an air cooled torch or even a stick welding lead for say 250 amps would be somewhere around a #2 or #4 awg wire, If you look inside a water cooled 250 amp cable, the wire will be around a #10awg surrounded by a water jacket. While the torch head itself is cooled, the real cooling is needed in the power line. That is what makes the lines so small and flexible. So even with the bundle of three, it's a lot easier to deal with than something like a giant #2 awg copper wire hanging off your torch.

I'm sure he uses the 9 because of the light cable and torch. But that combo is only good to about 150 amps, so he switches to the 20 to get the power and duty cycle to do long welds in heavy material.

[dumbwelder]

I see. I'm glad there are people who know this stuff! I think where I lose interest is, for instance, when wiring something there is 4 colors, but in some instances this particular color is one thing, but in other cases it can be different. I'm not into burning the building down by accident. Or purposefully for that matter! I'll leave that to the professionals and the insurance companies to sort out.

I remember working at a place welding forged aluminum engine blocks with a 375 amp Lincoln 'Sledge Hammer' when a salesman came in and sold us on a torch, which was a 20, good for 400 amps. Or so the story went. I believe it was a Speedway. I think it was purple. I have no idea if it would've handled that kind of heat, but for the money they charged, it better!

So what do you think? Will I be good with a 9 for .125" aluminum and no helium?

[Rambozo]

All depends on how long the weld and how long a rest between welds, plus how thick your gloves are. You will be near the upper limit of what a 9 can do.

[everlastsupport]

Yes, keep an eye on duty cycle. Might want to google TIG finger too.

[performance]

I see. I'm glad there are people who know this stuff! I think where I lose interest is, for instance, when wiring something there is 4 colors, but in some instances this particular color is one thing, but in other cases it can be different. I'm not into burning the building down by accident. Or purposefully for that matter! I'll leave that to the professionals and the insurance companies to sort out.

I remember working at a place welding forged aluminum engine blocks with a 375 amp Lincoln 'Sledge Hammer' when a salesman came in and sold us on a torch, which was a 20, good for 400 amps. Or so the story went. I believe it was a Speedway. I think it was purple. I have no idea if it would've handled that kind of heat, but for the money they charged, it better!

So what do you think? Will I be good with a 9 for .125" aluminum and no helium?

A 20 is typically good for 225- 250 amps or so.

A 9 is 125 amps.

You'd be better off letting us sell you a 17 with a stubby consumable kit, or a CK trimline 26 with a stubby kit.

[Blaster]

If you look inside a water cooled 250 amp cable, the wire will be around a #10awg surrounded by a water jacket. While the torch head itself is cooled, the real cooling is needed in the power line. That is what makes the lines so small and flexible.

I would have thought so too,,,, BUT was Amazed to find it closer to 14ga!


Post #15 has pics of my 250A CK Water Cooled power line -> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...2122#post52122

[dumbwelder]

A 20 is typically good for 225- 250 amps or so.

A 9 is 125 amps.

You'd be better off letting us sell you a 17 with a stubby consumable kit, or a CK trimline 26 with a stubby kit.

Which torch comes with the 200DV? Isn't a 17 bigger than the 20/9? I can't stand those. Is there no 'aftermarket' brand out there with a higher amp 'small' torch?

I might just buy a cooler but I don't see myself needing one very often at all.

Yes, keep an eye on duty cycle. Might want to google TIG finger too.

Those are great. I've used them in the past

[Rambozo]

There is almost no size difference between a 17 with a stubby kit and a 9. Different brands have more variation in external size even though they share the same internal parts. There are size 20 torches and cables rated to 300 amps, so no real need to go to the larger sizes with Everlast machines. It all has to do with the kind of welding you do and what is a deal breaker. Some people don't mind the torch getting hot as they wear thick gloves and or hold the torch way back from the head. I often TIG with no gloves at all, so I want the torch to remain cool. To me the dividing line is around 100 amps. Air cooled works below that, water cooled above. Duty cycle also can move that number around a bit. Like production welding at 100 amps I would want water cooled, and doing light fitup or repair at 150 amps would still be ok for air cooled.

I think every machine has a best matched torch for the kind of work that is done with it. A 20 will do almost everything I want, on a bench machine and I've used the same one across at least 3 different welding machines over 20 plus years. For a semi portable machine, a 17 with a stubby kit will do the kind of short repair type work without melting down up to 150 plus amps. I keep a giant Lincoln Magnum 26 torch with my SA-200 just because it's indestructible, and can handle whatever needs to be done.

Small size, air cooled, high power. You only get to pick two.

[dumbwelder]

There is almost no size difference between a 17 with a stubby kit and a 9.

If I remember correctly(its been a few years since using a 17) there is a noticeable difference in the size of the body itself.

It all has to do with the kind of welding you do and what is a deal breaker.

Torch size
Like I said earlier. Awkward/uncomfortable hand positions make for a miserable day.

Some people don't mind the torch getting hot as they wear thick gloves and or hold the torch way back from the head. I often TIG with no gloves at all

Thick gloves get in the way and get cooked, so not an option for me. I also sometimes wear no gloves.

Small size, air cooled, high power. You only get to pick two.

I've only ever needed 2 sizes even when welding schedule 80 pipe. 20/9 and micro/pencil. And when I've used cheap TIG's that came with a 17, I replaced them with 9's from Lincoln Electric.

Thanks for the input. I'll see if Speedway or someone else has something available.

[dumbwelder]

Thanks to everyone who replied. According to UPS tracking, this thing is slated to arrive Thursday(today), and after reading through this thread again, I just want to make clear that I'm not in any way worried about my hand getting warm. I thought I made that clear. I'm worried about the torch melting down.

[Rambozo]

Thanks to everyone who replied. According to UPS tracking, this thing is slated to arrive Thursday(today), and after reading through this thread again, I just want to make clear that I'm not in any way worried about my hand getting warm. I thought I made that clear. I'm worried about the torch melting down.

That's simple.
Never run a water cooled torch without water.
Don't exceed the amp and duty cycle rating of the torch.

[dumbwelder]

That's simple.
Never run a water cooled torch without water.
Don't exceed the amp and duty cycle rating of the torch.

Hah! I wish it were that simple. Seeing that I'm probably right on the edge of the amp and duty cycle, I'm gonna have to push my luck!

I'm goin in....

[dumbwelder]

Initial impressions are pretty good aside from the usual crap quality control coming out of China regarding machined threads etc.

These inverters are quite impressive. I just laid down these long beads on this .500" thick scrap. These were used to hold Subaru cases in a cylinder hone so they've been saturated with honing oil much of their lives. I set the machine to 160 amps and held the pedal down for most of the time. Totally expected the breaker to lay down but it didn't budge. All on a 30 amp circuit!



Still not a fan of the bulky 17 torch but it was OK on a trial run.

So far so good, Everlast