New 185dv owner with a porosity issue

[christian]

Well,

If you can post those pics I've requested, please do, as people here can see things in them that you don't, which is why you're requesting our help. But we need your input sometimes, like with the pics. I mean, apparently your expert on the scene there hasn't solved your aluminum issue. So, we could use more input, from you, like pics of the "different setup", etc., i.e., don't keep us in the proverbial dark while continuing to ask for help.

Otherwise, a common rule-of-thumb with aluminum to to be able to get a puddle going on aluminum in about 3 seconds, or less. And on 1/8" sheet that is an easy thing.

So, with aluminm, it's better to hit it with a lot of amps up front, watch for that glint of a puddle, then stab or dab, then withdraw the rod so it doesn't "evaporate", then move ahead, repeat, and taper off the amps as needed.

You see, if you use too few amps up front, you overheat the metal without forming a puddle, then the metal drops out.

"Three seconds", or you're doing it wrong, e.g., set the amps at the panel for more than the 1 amp per thousand rule. At 100 amps you're undoubtedly dwelling too long, and just making soup.

And, is your welding lid adequate enough to allow you to see the arc and the subtle start of a puddle in aluminum?

I mean, try doing some tacks in aluminum, with a dab of filler. If you can master that, the rest will follow.

I did get the optional foot pedal and have been using it.

I could post pictures of the piece, tungsten, etc, but I'm confident I've got it all set up right. This was confirmed by the expert I had out yesterday.

Next step is going to be try welding the same stuff with a different setup. I've got a lead on that and will report back. This will definitively confirm whether the problem is me or my setup.

[Deep Six]

Yeah, I don't mean to keep you guys in the dark. I just didn't take any pictures to post beyond those in the start of this thread. I will try to remember to snap some next time I'm out there. I'm afraid all they're going to show is a clean, balled tungsten and clean aluminum (before) and dirty melted aluminum (after).

What would be really cool is a video. Maybe I'll try to get some help holding a camera behind a spare helmet.

I understand what you mean about wait for the puddle and then stab filler. I've watched several hours of guys doing it on youtube. The problem is that I never get a puddle to stab. Also it's melting the piece within 3 seconds.

If I had to guess, it has something to do with I'm not getting thru the oxide layer before the metal underneath melts away. However I tried going up to 50% cleaning and it didn't help. I'm also getting black soot in the area I hold the arc. When the filler melts it goes into little black gobs that won't adhere to the workpiece.

[Rambozo]

Did the person you had out make any comments that the AC arc didn't look or sound right? Could you see any cathodic etching taking place? For 1/8" material you will want to be at or close to full pedal to get started, then taper off as the material warms up. How does your tungsten look after welding? What is your argon flowrate and cup size? What size and kind of tungsten are you using?

[Deep Six]

He thought the arc sounded good. By cathodic etching do you mean the infamous "cleaning action"? If that's what you mean, my answer would be "kind of", not nearly to the extent I see in youtube videos of the process.

Tungsten is 3/32" lanthanated 2%. #7 gas lens, argon at 20 cfh. Tungsten is balled and clean after welding. Tried grinding it to a point, leaving it squared off, and everything in-between. Result after welding is a blunted, small ball and clean either way.

[christian]

Yeah,

20 CFM is a tad of high, but not enough to be causing your problem. I'd drop it down to 15 anyway, especially if you're using a gas lens.

You probably won't see the etching if dwelling in one place without a tight arc, or until there's a puddle and you start moving.

If you hold a tight arc and move the torch along the top of the metal, you can see it that way, as it can give some preliminary cleaning action and preheating for a weldiing bead or seam. But it's not a typical thing to do.

Some pics of your torch, with tungsten prepped, and showing the stick-out might help us spot something, too.

Originally, were you welding on some galvanized, ground-off?

That might have been your initial problem with porosity on steel.

Otherwise, I'm guessing that you're on the brink of similarly turning for the better with aluminum.

"Three seconds" or less, watch for the "glint", stick it, then pull back the filler. That's a tack on aluminum. And a bead is a series of tacks, so to speaks.

But you gotta see it first!

He thought the arc sounded good. By cathodic etching do you mean the infamous "cleaning action"? If that's what you mean, my answer would be "kind of", not nearly to the extent I see in youtube videos of the process.

Tungsten is 3/32" lanthanated 2%. #7 gas lens, argon at 20 cfh. Tungsten is balled and clean after welding. Tried grinding it to a point, leaving it squared off, and everything in-between. Result after welding is a blunted, small ball and clean either way.

[Rambozo]

He thought the arc sounded good. By cathodic etching do you mean the infamous "cleaning action"? If that's what you mean, my answer would be "kind of", not nearly to the extent I see in youtube videos of the process.

Tungsten is 3/32" lanthanated 2%. #7 gas lens, argon at 20 cfh. Tungsten is balled and clean after welding. Tried grinding it to a point, leaving it squared off, and everything in-between. Result after welding is a blunted, small ball and clean either way.

Sounds like you have covered all the bases. Nothing jumps out as a problem. On the off chance it is a balance issue, try a weld with the balance set to 75%+. Expect the tungsten to melt into a big ball, if it doesn't something is off with the balancing.

As far as having the filler not melt when introducing it , that takes some practice. Torch angle , arc length, rod angle, and speed all play a part. One thing you don't want to do is pull the rod way out between dabs. You want it to be out of the heat but stay within the argon envelope, so it doesn't oxidize. Also make sure your rod is clean. A wipe down with acetone is always a good idea. For 1/8" material bead on plate, I would use 1/16" filler. 3/32" at the most. Keep your torch at 90° and move your head instead, to see around the torch. Aluminum magnifies any lack of proper prep or technique. Steel has to be clean, but aluminum has to be sterile! Especially when you are learning.

One thing because you are seeing soot and have also had issues with steel, is I would make sure your torch isn't sucking in any air. Easier said than done, but checking all the o-rings and sealing surfaces for cuts, roughness, or burrs, especially the back cap and where the cup meets the insulator, is a good start. Maybe your expert can do a leakdown test on it for you.

[Deep Six]

Ok pictures:

Mess I made (notice how it digs and won't let me build the aluminum up):


Tungsten before:


Tungsten after:

[Deep Six]

Additional info:

I was previously having problems with porosity in ground, clean A36 steel. NOT galvanized anything. I solved the porosity issue by using stainless 309 filler. I was also having some success using going slow and jamming as much ER70S2 filler as I could manage into the weld. However even the steel welds have a dull grey appearance that can be wire brushed to a nice shine.

I did try cleaning settings between 20 - 80%. 20% gave me more black goo and 80% gave me a giant ball on the tungsten and no penetration, as expected.

I think I'm better than halfway thru the 55cf tank of gas. So soon enough I'll have a fresh tank of gas to try.

[performance]

Those show evidence of contamination. Definitely looks like bad gas. If your tungsten is balling, it should not be an issue with AC.

[Rambozo]

Additional info:

I was previously having problems with porosity in ground, clean A36 steel. NOT galvanized anything. I solved the porosity issue by using stainless 309 filler. I was also having some success using going slow and jamming as much ER70S2 filler as I could manage into the weld. However even the steel welds have a dull grey appearance that can be wire brushed to a nice shine.

I did try cleaning settings between 20 - 80%. 20% gave me more black goo and 80% gave me a giant ball on the tungsten and no penetration, as expected.

I think I'm better than halfway thru the 55cf tank of gas. So soon enough I'll have a fresh tank of gas to try.

Ok, I just wanted to make sure your balance control was working properly. Check, that is as expected.

For learning I would advise larger pieces of material, that way the heat won't get out of control so easily. Also cool off the material between welds. For practice you can just dunk them in water, but don't do that with actual projects. Also ensure that it is totally dry before trying another bead. From what I can see your arc length looks to be on the large side. Rule of thumb, try to hold a max arc length about one tungsten diameter. To do this you will have to lift the torch as you add filler then lower it as you move forward. Trying to jump right into aluminum is a big challenge. When I have taught new employees to TIG, I typically start with 1/8" steel then wait until they semi master that before moving to 16 gauge sheet steel. Where upon the welds go back to looking like crap but they get that pretty quick. Once they master the sheet metal and start getting cocky. I bust out the 1/8 aluminum and take them down a peg or two. Their welds go back to looking like crap, but they understand the fundamentals and have a pretty good idea what they are doing wrong, just not enough control to prevent it. That just takes practice. However, everything you learn about aluminum will make steel a cake walk. Once you can lay a good bead on 6061, you can weld steel standing on your head. Previous MIG and stick welding skills never made much of a difference. If anything they had bad habits from other processes. The only person I taught that got it quickly was someone that had done a bunch of oxy-fuel welding many years before. And while watching videos is a great new way to learn, it probably won't be as fast as someone looking over your shoulder, saying more pedal, less pedal, too long, don't starve the puddle, add filler, get moving, etc. It just takes practice.

[Deep Six]

I can believe I need lots of practice, but I can't even get a puddle to jab filler into. I still think there's something wrong with my setup. I still suspect bad gas, and I'll change out the cylinder soon enough. In the meantime I'm still looking into trying someone else's setup to see if I get different results.

[christian]

Yeah,

Maybe that "refurbed" Argon tank you got was not the best deal.

So, a fresh tank may solve your problem.

Otherwise, your tungsten prep and grinding could be better (looks like rough, spiral serrations). I use a dedicated, dremel-like tool that makes tungsten sharpening very handy and precise.

So, yeah, maybe you could just borrow an Argon tank from somebody else's setup, to rule-out the chance of it being bad gas.

Then the mystery would be solved.

[Deep Six]

I specifically ground that tungsten into a blunt point for aluminum. Ground for steel, they look like this

[Deep Six]

Also, even if the gas is tainted, the tank was still a good deal. Even without the gas, I got an in-date tank for $90. It can now be swapped for a fresh tank at my local gas supplier (airgas) for the cost of gas only. They wanted $250 to sell me an empty tank.

[christian]

OK,

I get that. But you still have the presenting problem, which may be the gas in the current tank.

I'd just go get that swapped out right now, to rule that out.

That tungsten looks good. And a tip like that is good for aluminum too. I tend to truncate a pointed tip like that, just a bit, but not as a last step.

Yeah, gas bottle prices, filling costs, leasing vs owning, etc, can be tricky. But, as an alternative to local, taxed sources, you can purchase a 125CF Argon tank, FULL, delivered to your door, with free shipping, and no State tax paid in most cases, for $301.99, via Weldfabulous as a seller on Amazon, or from their website too, I'm guessing.

That's a pretty fair value, from a retail source, I think.

https://www.amazon.com/125-100-Argon...70_&dpSrc=srch

[Deep Six]

Ok. I made the smaller bead on the backside of a piece of aluminum diamond plate using a Syncrowave 250. The other bead was made by the guy helping me. This was totally different than what I experience with mine and confirmed the problem doesn't lie with my technique. This time I actually get a visible puddle and the filler works as expected. Also no black stuff.

I'm definitely thinking bad gas.

[christian]

Yeah,

Those aren't shabby at all!

[Deep Six]

And here's my setup again. This time on 1/4" aluminum plate. Pretty much maxing the machine and 3/32 tungsten out at 180 amps. Notice all the black stuff. It's obvious to me now that I've got a contamination problem. I've checked everything but the gas. The gas is definitely my next troubleshooting step.

[christian]

Swap that tank.

No sense waiting.

Then please do share some pics of your problem vanquished!

[Deep Six]

I grabbed a fresh tank of argon last week and finally got around to trying it today. Looks like the gas was definitely the culprit. Yeah I know it's not perfect, but at least it works now. Next comes practice, practice, practice haha.