CK and WP-20 question

[Adambomb]

Is the CK torch any different/better/worse than the WP20 that Everlast offers?

[sschefer]

Is the CK torch any different/better/worse than the WP20 that Everlast offers?

I don't see a Everlast 20 torch on the site. I see the 18 and 26's only. The Everlast torches shown on the website are Euro Style and appear to have the on/off switch built into the handle.

The CK torch 200 is a slim torch and requires a aftermarket switch if you want to utilize the 2T/4T functionality of the welder. Like I said before, I won't compare the CK to the Everlasts since they are totally different designs.

[Rugar]

Is the CK torch any different/better/worse than the WP20 that Everlast offers?

I had the Everlast WP20 torch, and sent it back.
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...New-WP20-Torch
Really cant compare the two as far as welding goes because the one I received had a internal gas flow problem and welded like crap even after I finally got the gas hookup leak problem fixed.
The torch size is the same, they both have flex necks (I ordered a CK flex neck), and they both use the same collets, collet holders, and cups. The Everlast WP20 will not use a full lengh tungsten even with the long back cap. Needs to be cut down 1" to fit if new. The Everlast WP20 torch leads are a little more flexible then the stock torch that came with the machine, but not even close to being in the same league as the CK torch. If the WP torch would have worked correctly (I just got a bad one), I probably would have been happy with it for its small size and price.
That being said, the CK torch setup does cost 3 times the price fully set up. $100 compared to $300.
With the CK you have to buy the torch, the dinse connector, fittings and adapters to make it work, and the torch lead cover. All of that comes with the WP20 torch except for the water connectors for $100. I bought a 25' torch with the super flex cables which also brought the price up some. Was well worth the extra money as far as I'm concerned.

Shows how flexible the CK torch leads are.

[woodchuck]

Gerald I had a similar experience with the Everlast WP20 torch. I never could get gas shielding on the welds or tungsten no matter what I had the argon set at. I also found the the cables very stiff and had some of the insulation melt of the negative cable.

Did you get your Ck torch at Arczone? Would you be able to share part #'s for the parts to hook it up to the 250ex?

I really like the 250EX...just not crazy about the foot pedal or torches that come with it.

Chuck

Edit... Sorry I did see you bought your torch from Arczone.

[froader]

Thanks for the info. Sounds like a great setup.

Interesting to find out that I am NOT the only one having problems with the Everlast WP20 torch. Mark(Everlast) told me multiple times that he heard nothing but positive feedback, when I let him know the issues I was having and my suggestions to fix them. He never heard of any of these problems, EDIT and told me that I have an isolated situation.

I am on the 2nd Everlast WP20 torch and both have gas/contamination problems What I found out was using a gas lens fixed the gas/contamination issues. I compared a standard 1/8" collet body to the included Everlast collet body and noticed the gas orifices on the Everlast were farther away from the torch, thus being exposed and flowing gas. Unfortunately the industry standard collet body gas orifices will be blocked by the cup. The problem I can see is the torch was designed so that the collet body is recesed too far into the torch.

I also find that a full length of tungsten will not fit into the long cap.
The other problem I suggested a solution to is that the gas fitting is wrong, and a water fitting was used instead, thus a gas leak.
Lastly one of the water and the gas hose ID it way too small to properly accept the quick disconnect fittings. I also think those hoses are too thin, IMO, and are succeptable to damage.
I was able to get the fittings in, using a heat gun and LOTS of patients. I simply used some ss tie wire to secure them.

Now that I got the torch all setup and working correctly with a gas lens, it really works well.

It would just be nice to receive a product that works out of the box. I hope they will make some revisions based on the suggestions in this thread. The end result will be a great product!

[Rugar]

Gerald I had a similar experience with the Everlast WP20 torch. I never could get gas shielding on the welds or tungsten no matter what I had the argon set at. I also found the the cables very stiff and had some of the insulation melt of the negative cable.

Did you get your Ck torch at Arczone? Would you be able to share part #'s for the parts to hook it up to the 250ex?

I really like the 250EX...just not crazy about the foot pedal or torches that come with it.

Chuck

Edit... Sorry I did see you bought your torch from Arczone.

Its all up and running now, but I had them make me one extra water extension hose that is not needed. The fitting to eliminate it will be here tomorrow. Tomorrow night I will do a new posting complete with photos and part #s of everything needed to make this work. Really is a simple conversion once you figure out what fittings are needed. Would have been even cheaper and easier if the Everlast machines used a gas connector style quick connect on the gas outlet instead of the water style.

[woodchuck]

Its all up and running now, but I had them make me one extra water extension hose that is not needed. The fitting to eliminate it will be here tomorrow. Tomorrow night I will do a new posting complete with photos and part #s of everything needed to make this work. Really is a simple conversion once you figure out what fittings are needed. Would have been even cheaper and easier if the Everlast machines used a gas connector style quick connect on the gas outlet instead of the water style.

Sounds good...thanks.


Chuck

[Rugar]

Thanks for the info. Sounds like a great setup.

Interesting to find out that I am NOT the only one having problems with the Everlast WP20 torch. Mark(Everlast) told me multiple times that he heard nothing but positive feedback, when I let him know the issues I was having and my suggestions to fix them. He never heard of any of these problems and I continue to be isolated...

I am on the 2nd Everlast WP20 torch and both have gas/contamination problems What I found out was using a gas lens fixed the gas/contamination issues. I compared a standard 1/8" collet body to the included Everlast collet body and noticed the gas orifices on the Everlast were farther away from the torch, thus being exposed and flowing gas. Unfortunately the industry standard collet body gas orifices will be blocked by the cup. The problem I can see is the torch was designed so that the collet body is recesed too far into the torch.

I also find that a full length of tungsten will not fit into the long cap.
The other problem I suggested a solution to is that the gas fitting is wrong, and a water fitting was used instead, thus a gas leak.
Lastly one of the water and the gas hose ID it way too small to properly accept the quick disconnect fittings. I also think those hoses are too thin, IMO, and are succeptable to damage.
I was able to get the fittings in, using a heat gun and LOTS of patients. I simply used some ss tie wire to secure them.

Now that I got the torch all setup and working correctly with a gas lens, it really works well.

It would just be nice to receive a product that works out of the box. I hope they will make some revisions based on the suggestions in this thread. The end result will be a great product!

I think you have it back wards (at least on my 250EX), the machine has a water style quick connect fitting for the gas. The WP20 torch I got had a gas style fitting. I waited three weeks for the correct fitting to be sent to me but never received it. I put on the correct one from my stock torch after I got tired of waiting.
I had to use a lighter to heat the gas line to make it REALLY soft to get a barbed water fitting in it to work. I agree, the hose is WAY to small.
I used a weldcraft collet body in mine and was hardly getting any gas flow from the nozzle, so that was probably the problem. (which I was told would work)
I was also told after asking before I bought it if it would accept full length 7" electrodes and was told it would. It will not. And it also comes with a 12' lead instead of a 15' that I was told it had.
I sent mine back last week with a request to credit my CC back after getting a RMA # from Kayla. They received it back on Monday. Still waiting for a credit refund.

[froader]

I think you have it back wards (at least on my 250EX), the machine has a water style quick connect fitting for the gas. The WP20 torch I got had a gas style fitting. I waited three weeks for the correct fitting to be sent to me but never received it. I put on the correct one from my stock torch after I got tired of waiting.
I had to use a lighter to heat the gas line to make it REALLY soft to get a barbed water fitting in it to work. I agree, the hose is WAY to small.
I used a weldcraft collet body in mine and was hardly getting any gas flow from the nozzle, so that was probably the problem. (which I was told would work)
I was also told after asking before I bought it if it would accept full length 7" electrodes and was told it would. It will not. And it also comes with a 12' lead instead of a 15' that I was told it had.
I sent mine back last week with a request to credit my CC back after getting a RMA # from Kayla. They received it back on Monday. Still waiting for a credit refund.

It sounds like we have the same isues with the torch.
I have a 225LX and the fitting that came on the gas line is not the same fitting that came with the original torch. It actually works for a water fitting for their cooler, but still doesn't look exactly like the fittings that came with my cooler. I cut the gas fitting from the original torch, heated the hose up and kept working with it untill I got it into the hose.
The torch will not accept any standard collet body and shield the weld. I don't really understand how these measurements can stray from the industry standard 20 series torch and torch consumables, but the included 2.4(1/8in) collet body works for me as well as a gas lens. I just have to make sure not to loose that 2.4 collet body...

I am still waiting for a cart, which have been back ordered for a LONG time, so yes, having longer leads would be a big help.

Overall, once I got the torch working properly, it works really nice and smooth.

[performance]

Guys
The units do have GAS connectors, not water. This is a euro connection commonly used elsewhere in the world.

I am glad some of you are reporting issues with the torch. We can tell what we need to do. Canada introduced these torches first and they were fine. Jody Collier was sent one out of the same order and has had no reported issues. The back cap is a new issue with me. If it won't accept it, surely a replacement cap locally available will. When you buy a torch....you buy a body. The backcap and collets. and collet bodies are generally considered consumables. The first order was small and a good thing too, so we can give the feedback to the factory. Keep in mind this is a factory completely separate from the one that mfg's the welders and a separate one from the stock torches. We were trying to help out our customers on their requests for another torch...and do not put this as our primary mission. We will go back to the drawing board...


Froader,
edit: removed, sounded testy, did not mean it that way.

[Rugar]

Mark,
With all due respect, I did tell you about the gas issue last month over the phone shortly after receiving my WP20 torch. I called you to tell you about the wrong gas fitting on the torch after I didn't get a response about the leaking gas connector on this forum. The thread is here:
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/fo...New-WP20-Torch
We did figure the low gas flow I was getting from the nozzle was because of the leak. You also told me you would have the correct fitting sent out to me, but that never happened. After waiting 3 weeks I used the one from my stock torch, but still had the same low gas flow issue which was explained to Kayla, and she issued me a RMA# to send it back.
I had Arczone build me a adapter for the gas hose from my new CK torch to my 250EX using a B style water connector, and it works perfect with no leak. Both the water lines on the cooler, and gas line on the machine are all using the same exact fitting for the quick release. Its either Part# A-QCHP14 or Part# WES-AW-17. I'm not positive which is the quick connect # from off of my invoice.

[performance]

Gerald,

I do not on a typical basis have Katya send anything out except a sold unit...only on rare occasion. I have no emails in any of my folders about this. I went back and searched them and I don't erase anything permanently. I do have the customer call in directly and request it directly. I do not work in the same office and we are on opposite ends of the country. Mike sometimes does. People frequently confuse us. He does send in emails and what happens from there I cannot say...But I am more than willing to admit I made a mistake, and I apologize. Froaders experience was sometime about the same time...However, the issue I was referring to was the shielding issue, not the leak.

A note for our customers: Any time something is "promised" such as a part or anything related to warranty be sure to follow up with BOTH the promiser and directly with Warranty. Tech support is NOT warranty. We help you get things diagnosed/running, but we do NOT typically ship, round up parts, or have any responsibility for honoring warranty directly. If we have something in our personal stock we may be able to help you out directly, and we will tell you so, and then it falls upon us. But in the other cases, where it is a warranty issue, it is important that you follow through with calling warranty directly. Inform them of the issue, and that you have spoken with us, so they won't send you back to us. We are the first line of action when you have a problem, but if we cannot resolve it, then you will need to request whatever you need directly. Follow through as well with an email, in case you have to leave a voice message...(I'd follow up with an email regardless).

[sschefer]

Too much rambling on my part... I deleted the content in this post. It's been hijacked and the purpose lost or misunderstood anyway.

[Rugar]

Gerald,

I do not on a typical basis have Katya send anything out except a sold unit...only on rare occasion. I have no emails in any of my folders about this. I went back and searched them and I don't erase anything permanently. I do have the customer call in directly and request it directly. I do not work in the same office and we are on opposite ends of the country. Mike sometimes does. People frequently confuse us. He does send in emails and what happens from there I cannot say... Froaders experience was sometime about the same time...However, the issue I was referring to was the shielding issue, not the leak.

I have never talked to Mike. I talked to you on the phone. I am well aware that you live in GA.. We have talked several times on the phone about different things including when I ordered my units from you directly. We discussed the leak AND the shielding issue at the same time. You told me you would have the correct fitting sent to me, but it never showed up. After fixing the leak, I still had a shielding issue. Anyway, after talking to Katya (guess its not Kayla), and explaining all of this last week and requesting a refund on the WP20, she issued me a RMA# and I sent it back to San Francisco. I hope there wont be a problem getting a refund, as there seems to be some misunderstanding over this.

[Rugar]

Steve,
This is on the gas fitting, not the water. I agree they need to fit really snug, but not so snug they need to be heated almost to the point of turning the hose into a gooey mess for it to fit. The OD of the gas hose was the same as the OD of the barbed fitting on the small end. Once it was pushed on with A LOT of force even after A LOT of heat, the hose was literally paper thin once fully seated on the barb. This is using the barb off of the stock torch which is what I was told to use.

I have no issues with my machine. Like you, I just didn't like the stock torch that it came with, and the WP20 torch I got to replace it had a gas flow problem. Everlast has some great machines, but I also understand that they cant ship them with top of the line torch's, pedals, and accessories and still keep the cost down. I like my 250EX even better now with the CK torch on it, and after the first of the year will probably do a pedal upgrade just as you did.

[performance]

Rugar,
My sincere apologies. If I told you something, I guess I goofed. I don't see any communication in or out of my box about the part in question. I remember the order, but honestly can't remember anything else about it from there. I do handle a lot of things for the company, and I must have just slipped my mind after we got off the phone...Or I did send in the request, trying to expedite things and forgot to follow up with checking on the shipping.
I wish I could remember the details, but honestly I am still drawing a blank especially on the issue of shielding gas problems...Do you have any approximate dates? I am trying to find any notes on this. Again, I apologize. I don't like having things come back on me like this, but it reminds me I am still human.

Please do call me if you do have any problems. I'd like to see the torch personally to find out what is wrong...Maybe she will ship it out to me.

BTW, PM me. I might have something that will make you happy.

[froader]

Guys
The units do have GAS connectors, not water. This is a euro connection commonly used elsewhere in the world.

I am glad some of you are reporting issues with the torch. We can tell what we need to do. Canada introduced these torches first and they were fine. Jody Collier was sent one out of the same order and has had no reported issues. The back cap is a new issue with me. If it won't accept it, surely a replacement cap locally available will. When you buy a torch....you buy a body. The backcap and collets. and collet bodies are generally considered consumables. The first order was small and a good thing too, so we can give the feedback to the factory. Keep in mind this is a factory completely separate from the one that mfg's the welders and a separate one from the stock torches. We were trying to help out our customers on their requests for another torch...and do not put this as our primary mission. We will go back to the drawing board...


Froader,
edit: removed, sounded testy, did not mean it that way.

No problem, I am glad that you removed.
I am glad to hear that you are taking notes to improve these torches. That's all my aim was and is with my post, as well as offering information to help others fix their torches, so that they can be usable. I would really suggest looking into the thread depth on the torch, where the collet body screws in. It screws in too far blocking the gas orifices. This alone will fix the gas flow/contamination problems. The torches should accept industry standard 20series collet bodies without causing any problems.

I paid to ship Mike my 1st WP20 torch and looks like he signed for it last week. I haven't heard back from him to see if he had a chance to test it out.

Mark, I am just here to help. Hopefully my suggestions/solutions can help make the torch better or at least help the end user make the torch usable.

[performance]

Mike is on vacation this week. And yes I know he received it. He hasn't had time to check anything out. If he pops in here, it is because he is bored. lol.

What I think is the problem, is that the cons were not matching the torch itself. The other possiblitiy is that the threads on the torch OR collet did not stop where it should. I discovered on some of our trafimet syle torches, some "over machining" on some collet bodies allowing the collet body to be screwed in too far and the back cap would not go down far enough to seal...But this factory is not the same as the 20 factory...so I doubt there is a relation, but it could be possible...But the simple remedy was NOT to screw the collet body in all the way and tighten the back cap up onto the collet until it sealed. The collet body would be held secure and no problem would occur at all. Its possible that the collet bodies on the WP series were overmachined and by leaving them a little loose, the shielding issue might be resolved, by tightening the backcap down further. We can work with the factory I am sure to get it resolved...but all this takes time, and then checking and rechecking. Like we said, the Canadian torches (which our shipment came at the same time) were fine overall, last I knew.

[everlastsupport]

Hey Mark,

Only 7:30AM and bored already. The cold weather is killing me (you know I have thin blood).

I attempted to save "Steve's CK thread" making this one, poor Steve's thread became a mess (beyond hi-jacked). Sorry Steve.

Miles did send the torch and I might run up to Welder Services today for gas for a friend. If I do I "might" buy consumables for it since I only have the bare torch (hard to test it that way). But depends on timing and Ray also has WP-20 consumables on the way to me for it.

Don't think I have talked to Rugar, but Miles and I have talk a few times and it seemed to be a bad torch.

[Ray]

Mike you should have the torch parts today, I bet anyway.

Look at the position of the gas holes in the torch head relative to the collet body and back cap, let me know what you think.